US attack on Iraqis, intentional?

[jefjef]

It's our tax dollars at work. A journalist I know made this comment which I agree with and probably only a few of you will as well:

"Clearly, the invasion is like an effing video game to some of these guys. It's been going on for seven years now, and I'm (not) wondering where is the outrage -- a fascist state has to fetishize military service, wrapping it all up in religious/racist/patriotic/macho packaging so few dare to criticize. The tea partiers claim they're about financial responsibility, well, here's a great example of a wasted couple trillion dollars.
But no special federal prosecutor looking at Dick Cheney."

You know I love you UD, but this journalist you know is a bit off the beaten path here. Since when are we a fascist state? As far as I know, more than 50% of the people in the US are against the war in Iraq, which is why we have a president who has promised to end the war. Since when do we fetishize military service? Based on your follow-up post to Thorney, do you think honoring your uncle, etc. is fetishizing military service? The religious/racist stuff is so completely off-base. I really don't understand this. So, President Bush is a Christian and that means we went to war with Iraq because they aren't Christian. Think about that sentence, because that's basically what your journalist friend is saying. Personally, I prefer something like "we wanted oil," which is far more realistic. The Tea Partiers do claim we're about fiscal responsibility. This is a great example of the waste of a lot of money. Most, if not all, of the Tea Partiers want out of Iraq and regularly blast President Bush and Vice President Cheney for the war.

So, in sum, your journalist friend is an idiot in the same vein as Thornheart. No offense.

My journalist friend is one of the smartest people I have ever met. His views are very liberal, even more so than mine. He is very passionate as well, something he can't be in his reporting which some of you may have read in AP reports in newspapers nationally. What he refers to as fascist is in regards to the fact that most of the country is and was against the Iraq war and yet we still did it. I think you know tgd that I'm no idiot so when I tell you that he is no idiot I think you will respect that. The difference between him and Thornheart and a great many others here it seems is that they have no understanding of what murder is or pretend not to. When you invade another country under the pretext of making that country a better place like we did in Vietnam or Iraq you are honor bound to behave in an honorable manner regardless of the cost. When you are invaded you are not held to the same standard. Your standard is survival and killing the invader in anyway you can. The USA is not ancient Rome. The founding fathers did not believe in an expeditionary force like the British had. I've realized that this argument or debate is senseless here. These people supporting this action just hate. They don't give a f*ck between right and wrong. They just want to shout long enough so that they are the last one heard and then they can say or think that they won. It's fucked and unfortunately this seems to be what this country, the USA, has become. So fascist isn't so far off. When idiots like Thornheart and Nobunga win a debate like this by shouting down reason and compassion it's just like the real world politics in America right now, truth, reason, and morality get shouted down by hate and stupidity. Stupid fuckers like these are why the bad guys get away with all the shit they do. Hitler/Cheney has his brown shirts all over again.

Pretty broad and arrogant statement. I HATE terrorist ASSHOLES. I HATE that those fucks wantonly and cowardly attacked and murdered thousands of AMERICAN civilians. I HATE that we need to go to foreign lands to clean up SHIT that isn't our shit. I HATE assholes who sit in the safety of their homes unable to comprehend why the are able to safely sit there and berate those who sacrifice themselves so they can be berated and judged for their actions that can cost them their lives if they are wrong in a fucking WAR ZONE.

If some of the shit in the world did not exist or if that shit left us the f*ck alone I would not have to HATE them or HATE that the defenders of our country are in harms way or HATE that innocent people get harmed because we have to deal with coward murdering assholes of the world that chose to start the fucking war and hide their sorry asses behind children and innocent families and yell foul when their tactics cause injury.

And you defend them.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Jefjef for President and Commander in Chief!

After 2 or 3 years in office, President Jefjef would make sure all terrorists and the countries that hide these scumbags would become history.

Jefjef's loyal servant,
GS

[Uncle Death]

jefjef, i defended nobody who perpetrated 9/11, if that was what you referred to, nor anybody that killed our soldiers in Iraq, i gave you the reality that is our world, who doesn't hate the suicide bombers or the people who place bombs to kill our soldiers, the point is we shouldn't be there so it doesn't happen, i'm with Ron Paul. we sent our boys to slaughter for no good reason.

put your thinking cap back on.

[Woodruff]

I've realized that this argument or debate is senseless here. These people supporting this action just hate. They don't give a f*ck between right and wrong.

You do realize that making statements such as these, which you seem wont to do, only paints you as a moron of the highest caliber. Frankly, you seem equally as closed-minded as those you are railing against.

What he refers to as fascist is in regards to the fact that most of the country is and was against the Iraq war and yet we still did it.

So fascist isn't so far off.

These two statements tell me that you don't seem to understand what fascism is.

[jaimito101]

Pretty broad and arrogant statement. I HATE terrorist ASSHOLES. I HATE that those fucks wantonly and cowardly attacked and murdered thousands of AMERICAN civilians. I HATE that we need to go to foreign lands to clean up SHIT that isn't our shit. I HATE assholes who sit in the safety of their homes unable to comprehend why the are able to safely sit there and berate those who sacrifice themselves so they can be berated and judged for their actions that can cost them their lives if they are wrong in a fucking WAR ZONE.

If some of the shit in the world did not exist or if that shit left us the f*ck alone I would not have to HATE them or HATE that the defenders of our country are in harms way or HATE that innocent people get harmed because we have to deal with coward murdering assholes of the world that chose to start the fucking war and hide their sorry asses behind children and innocent families and yell foul when their tactics cause injury.

And you defend them.

Well done jef jef, terrorism is the standard american answer to justify the war, even Bush used it for a while.

I 'm sorry to rain down on your parade... but NOBODY in IRAQ had anything to do with 9/11 or any terrorist attack please get your facts straight,even bush admited it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdlEcFfYZ2k. Those civilians and armed people in IRAQ being killed have not misdone anything!! to the american people and just want their country back. Sadam actually despised the Al-Quaida movement, wich also formed a threat to him.

Bush had no legitimate reason to attack iraq. So the american trillions of dollars being spend, and the hundreds of thousands iraqi casualities resulting of this senseless war, have not solved anything, have created a larger american resentment in the world and created a pooling ground for future terrorists in decades to come, above all this, it was all done based on lies and bouldering through the UN resolutions. Bush sold the war by making up threats ; "We have to attack them they have weapons of mass destruction!" did they? no, not even close. "They are attacking us on our ground soil!", did they? no.

[thegreekdog]

It's our tax dollars at work. A journalist I know made this comment which I agree with and probably only a few of you will as well:

"Clearly, the invasion is like an effing video game to some of these guys. It's been going on for seven years now, and I'm (not) wondering where is the outrage -- a fascist state has to fetishize military service, wrapping it all up in religious/racist/patriotic/macho packaging so few dare to criticize. The tea partiers claim they're about financial responsibility, well, here's a great example of a wasted couple trillion dollars.
But no special federal prosecutor looking at Dick Cheney."

You know I love you UD, but this journalist you know is a bit off the beaten path here. Since when are we a fascist state? As far as I know, more than 50% of the people in the US are against the war in Iraq, which is why we have a president who has promised to end the war. Since when do we fetishize military service? Based on your follow-up post to Thorney, do you think honoring your uncle, etc. is fetishizing military service? The religious/racist stuff is so completely off-base. I really don't understand this. So, President Bush is a Christian and that means we went to war with Iraq because they aren't Christian. Think about that sentence, because that's basically what your journalist friend is saying. Personally, I prefer something like "we wanted oil," which is far more realistic. The Tea Partiers do claim we're about fiscal responsibility. This is a great example of the waste of a lot of money. Most, if not all, of the Tea Partiers want out of Iraq and regularly blast President Bush and Vice President Cheney for the war.

So, in sum, your journalist friend is an idiot in the same vein as Thornheart. No offense.

My journalist friend is one of the smartest people I have ever met. His views are very liberal, even more so than mine. He is very passionate as well, something he can't be in his reporting which some of you may have read in AP reports in newspapers nationally. What he refers to as fascist is in regards to the fact that most of the country is and was against the Iraq war and yet we still did it. I think you know tgd that I'm no idiot so when I tell you that he is no idiot I think you will respect that. The difference between him and Thornheart and a great many others here it seems is that they have no understanding of what murder is or pretend not to. When you invade another country under the pretext of making that country a better place like we did in Vietnam or Iraq you are honor bound to behave in an honorable manner regardless of the cost. When you are invaded you are not held to the same standard. Your standard is survival and killing the invader in anyway you can. The USA is not ancient Rome. The founding fathers did not believe in an expeditionary force like the British had. I've realized that this argument or debate is senseless here. These people supporting this action just hate. They don't give a f*ck between right and wrong. They just want to shout long enough so that they are the last one heard and then they can say or think that they won. It's fucked and unfortunately this seems to be what this country, the USA, has become. So fascist isn't so far off. When idiots like Thornheart and Nobunga win a debate like this by shouting down reason and compassion it's just like the real world politics in America right now, truth, reason, and morality get shouted down by hate and stupidity. Stupid fuckers like these are why the bad guys get away with all the shit they do. Hitler/Cheney has his brown shirts all over again.

After this I'm going to stop, because we're in a clan and we're regular teammates and I don't want to f*ck that up over a debate.

You typed a lot of stuff in this post. I honestly don't think any of what you typed has anything to do with what I typed, except perhaps the fascist part. Perhaps your journalist friend is intelligent, but on this he/she is way off base. I am not going to retype what I've already typed, but I humbly suggest that you read it again.

[PLAYER57832]

To those who are defending the soldier's actions: http://www.truthout.org/iraq-war-vet-we-were-told-just-shoot-people-and-officers-would-take-care-us58378

Look. Vietnahm has been hashed out for decades. Yes, we acted in less than stellar ways. Yes, some outright war crimes were committed. However, the BIGGEST issue was that war is just plain nasty and average people just don't want to have to deal with it.

The REAL tragedy is that we sent a generation of men overseas to fight and then let them come back after risking their life daily for a year, with almost no time to process it all before hitting home, only to find they faced protests, people throwing things, even spitting on them and very, very little help of any kind.

War is nasty. That's why it should be avoided at all costs. Once we are there, yes, soldiers need to be held to the standards put forward for them. However, neither you nor I have the right to sit here, peacefully in our homes and claim that we know better than the military tribunal and investigation. We DO have the absolute right to demand that it is professional soldiers, held to standards and not private groups like Blackwater who are sent over to represent us. We also have the right to ask that rules of engagement be evaluated periodically by military and other experts.

[PLAYER57832]

My journalist friend is one of the smartest people I have ever met. His views are very liberal, even more so than mine. He is very passionate as well, something he can't be in his reporting which some of you may have read in AP reports in newspapers nationally. What he refers to as fascist is in regards to the fact that most of the country is and was against the Iraq war and yet we still did it. I think you know tgd that I'm no idiot so when I tell you that he is no idiot I think you will respect that. The difference between him and Thornheart and a great many others here it seems is that they have no understanding of what murder is or pretend not to. When you invade another country under the pretext of making that country a better place like we did in Vietnam or Iraq you are honor bound to behave in an honorable manner regardless of the cost. When you are invaded you are not held to the same standard. Your standard is survival and killing the invader in anyway you can. The USA is not ancient Rome. The founding fathers did not believe in an expeditionary force like the British had. I've realized that this argument or debate is senseless here. These people supporting this action just hate. They don't give a f*ck between right and wrong. They just want to shout long enough so that they are the last one heard and then they can say or think that they won. It's fucked and unfortunately this seems to be what this country, the USA, has become. So fascist isn't so far off. When idiots like Thornheart and Nobunga win a debate like this by shouting down reason and compassion it's just like the real world politics in America right now, truth, reason, and morality get shouted down by hate and stupidity. Stupid fuckers like these are why the bad guys get away with all the shit they do. Hitler/Cheney has his brown shirts all over again.

I am going to answer you as a fully liberal person who grew up with the Vietnahm war and its heavy shadow.

When your journalist friend or anyone else claims that the US acted inappropriately in going to Iraq, I fully agree. However, to claim that means we are a fascist state and bringing back "brown shirts" shows an extreme lack of understanding of fascism AND is extremely insulting to the many men and women, much of my family mind you, who faught in WWII.

The "brown shirts" as you put it used economic turmoil to lay blame on particular "races" (their term) of people and on "deficients" (also their term). They accepted NO responsibility for any action, but instead chose to exterminate anyone who they perceived as not fitting their model -- be it for political or other means.

Iraq is certain not a wonderful episode in US history, but the envolvement was based on 3 fronts. Saddam, though installed by us initially, was a despotic ruler who terrorized his people horribly. Businesses here were threatened by various issues, such as oil. At the same time, I do believe that Bush was misguided enough/blinded by his anger over what happened after his father's war to truly believe there were "weapons of mass distruction". We can look back and call the actions unwarranted, even stupid, but equivalent to Hitler? In no way, shape or form! And such accusations do nothing to improve anything. They instead discredit real and true opposition and criticism of the war.

Bush set up a government of "yes men" and people who were quite intent on telling Bush things that would make Bush act in ways that served their interest. Bush is not stupid, but any president is partially a puppet. Bush perhaps more than others in some specific areas. I blame the real tragedies of this war on Cheney. Not just Blackwater, but many decision that were made largely to benefit particular US business interests instead of the people.

In one respect you are correct. Our nation has become more and more polarized. It is often sort of "glossed over" in political science classes in elementary and high school, but the real reason we have a Republic is that our forefathers knew full well that average people are well swayed by rhetoric. The average person looks, essentially, at what we today would call "headlines" and rarely takes the time to look more in depth. Many people here are exceptions, but only some. Granted, this is a gaming site, so its not that surprising that a good many people would come to CC and simply never even visit the forums. It says nothing of their knowledge of politics or anything else. In fact, I would warrant that many who don't go to the forums don't specifically because they are so immersed in politics, etc in their "real lives" and come here simply to play games.

The worrisome part is that the internet is more and more blurring the lines between what is and is not credible, between what is true and what is just plain false. We are back to the days of "yellow journalism", but at a far more sophisticated level. If your journalist friend studied history, your friend might remember that we almost got into a war simply because of absolutely false stories Hearst put out. Incidents like that lead to the standards we have had in journalism for most of this past century. Now, however, those standards are being utterly bypassed. People would rather turnt to the "shock jocks" on Fox and other stations (there are many, I just pick on Fix.. lol), that listen to the "more boring", real news. More and more don't even really know the difference between real news and sensationalist opinions.

If your friend is a real journalist, then your friend has an obligation to present real and true news and NOT to bow to the latest fear mongering and tempting shock stories. There is plenty to criticize out there. There is a real and definite need to expose truth, even at times truth that people just don't want to hear. Particularly, truths that people don't want to hear. However, claims that the US is "fascist" or that Bush was Hitler do nothing to advance truth. They do nothing to make anything better in the world. This is not true journalism, it is fear-mongering.

[THORNHEART]

It is folly for sheep to make a peace with the wolves.

...maybe someone will get my drift

[jefjef]

Pretty broad and arrogant statement. I HATE terrorist ASSHOLES. I HATE that those fucks wantonly and cowardly attacked and murdered thousands of AMERICAN civilians. I HATE that we need to go to foreign lands to clean up SHIT that isn't our shit. I HATE assholes who sit in the safety of their homes unable to comprehend why the are able to safely sit there and berate those who sacrifice themselves so they can be berated and judged for their actions that can cost them their lives if they are wrong in a fucking WAR ZONE.

If some of the shit in the world did not exist or if that shit left us the f*ck alone I would not have to HATE them or HATE that the defenders of our country are in harms way or HATE that innocent people get harmed because we have to deal with coward murdering assholes of the world that chose to start the fucking war and hide their sorry asses behind children and innocent families and yell foul when their tactics cause injury.

And you defend them.

Well done jef jef, terrorism is the standard american answer to justify the war, even Bush used it for a while.

I 'm sorry to rain down on your parade... but NOBODY in IRAQ had anything to do with 9/11 or any terrorist attack please get your facts straight,even bush admited it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdlEcFfYZ2k. Those civilians and armed people in IRAQ being killed have not misdone anything!! to the american people and just want their country back. Sadam actually despised the Al-Quaida movement, wich also formed a threat to him.

Bush had no legitimate reason to attack iraq. So the american trillions of dollars being spend, and the hundreds of thousands iraqi casualities resulting of this senseless war, have not solved anything, have created a larger american resentment in the world and created a pooling ground for future terrorists in decades to come, above all this, it was all done based on lies and bouldering through the UN resolutions. Bush sold the war by making up threats ; "We have to attack them they have weapons of mass destruction!" did they? no, not even close. "They are attacking us on our ground soil!", did they? no.

Saddam was a shit stain on humanity. An old enemy. A sponsor of terrorism. A constant threat to his neighbors. A perpetrator of attempted genocide with in IRAQ's border. A large % of the population did want and is glad he is gone.

The world is better off with out that Arab Hitler in the game.

If the fighting would actually cease and the elected government was allowed to establish itself we could bring our troops home. Some don't want that. Syria & Iran to just name 2. They do not want a free or strong or stable Iraq.

[Phatscotty]

Sure, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still TRY to adhere to those codes. Those codes are actually far more important for the well-being of OUR military personnel from a psychological perspective than they are for the enemy. By knowing that you're following the rules for warfare that have been laid out as "acceptable", it's much easier for you to avoid a lot of the pitfalls that arise from the guilt associated with the actual things you have to do. That's why even in this sort of a situation, we should TRY to follow them, for the benefit of OUR troops.

When you play by the rules with cheaters, you usually lose

That's quite simply NOT true. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the opposite is true. For instance, did we really lose World War II, because I don't remember reading that we lost that war.

I won't play until you also add where the "cheating" comes into that analogy....you don't have to get too technical, because you won't surprise me with anything, so long as it is honest examples "1 cheating, 1 playing by rules"

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

[Woodruff]

When you play by the rules with cheaters, you usually lose

That's quite simply NOT true. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the opposite is true. For instance, did we really lose World War II, because I don't remember reading that we lost that war.

I won't play until you also add where the "cheating" comes into that analogy....you don't have to get too technical, because you won't surprise me with anything, so long as it is honest examples "1 cheating, 1 playing by rules"

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

Given that I made the general reference to WW2 and given that the Japanese atrocities are well-documented and well-known, I really didn't think it would be necessary to specify it. I'm rather surprised that I would need to and can only figure that this is your method of weaseling out of trying to back up your indefensible statement.

[Phatscotty]

When you play by the rules with cheaters, you usually lose

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

Given that I made the general reference to WW2 and given that the Japanese atrocities are well-documented and well-known, I really didn't think it would be necessary to specify it. I'm rather surprised that I would need to and can only figure that this is your method of weaseling out of trying to back up your indefensible statement.

you are so far out of line here, that I am questioning your weaselness. Germans....holocaust.....might....JUST MIGHT trump whatever Japanese atrocities you are referring to, and you are referring to them in such a way as to make the Holocaust look small? Yes, I guess I am going to have to ask you for such examples afterall. and by all means, without me even getting to the main point of "playing by the rules makes it very difficult to beat one who does not play by the rules" you cant even start with a real example. I made a statement, you disagreed, in a very un-gayous way, I asked for example, you throw the most general statement ever up against the wall, I try to get specific about it, you accuse me of weaseling....thats where that is. I'm still here.

Japan atrocities so bad so as to be make the holocaust pale in comparison.....you were saying......go ahead

I'll defend it all day and night, with specific examples if you ask. of course, I asked you first, and I guess that is a problem for you.

[Woodruff]

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

Given that I made the general reference to WW2 and given that the Japanese atrocities are well-documented and well-known, I really didn't think it would be necessary to specify it. I'm rather surprised that I would need to and can only figure that this is your method of weaseling out of trying to back up your indefensible statement.

you are so far out of line here, that I am questioning your weaselness. Germans....holocaust.....might....JUST MIGHT trump whatever Japanese atrocities you are referring to, and you are referring to them in such a way as to make the Holocaust look small?

Huh? The Holocaust isn't "cheating in the rules of warfare". It's despicable, but it has nothing at all to do with cheating. The Holocaust didn't even have anything at all to do with warfare. Why are you trying to change the subject, instead of admitting that you made an indefensible statement?

Yes, I guess I am going to have to ask you for such examples afterall.

Well that's certainly not difficult, moron. Here you go:

1) Yuki Tanaka, Poison Gas, the Story Japan Would Like to Forget, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, October 1988, p.17
Another example is the battle of Yichang in October 1941, during which the 19th Artillery Regiment helped the 13th Brigade of the 11th Army by launching 1,000 yellow gas shells and 1,500 red gas shells at the Chinese forces. The area was crowded with Chinese civilians prohibited by the Shōwa army from evacuating. Some 3,000 Chinese soldiers were in the area and 1,600 were affected. The Japanese report say that "the effect of gas seems considerable"

2) http://www.house.gov/bordallo/gwcrc/RL30606.pdf
At least nine out of 12 crew members survived the crash of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-29 bomber on Kyūshū, on May 5, 1945. (This plane was Lt. Marvin Watkins' crew of the 29th Bomb Group of the 6th Bomb Squadron.) The bomber's commander was sent to Tokyo for interrogation, while the other survivors were taken to the anatomy department of Kyushu University, at Fukuoka, where they were subjected to vivisection or killed.[/quote]

Need I really go on?

I'll defend it all day and night, with specific examples if you ask. of course, I asked you first, and I guess that is a problem for you.

You're such a fucking dumbass.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

Given that I made the general reference to WW2 and given that the Japanese atrocities are well-documented and well-known, I really didn't think it would be necessary to specify it. I'm rather surprised that I would need to and can only figure that this is your method of weaseling out of trying to back up your indefensible statement.

you are so far out of line here, that I am questioning your weaselness. Germans....holocaust.....might....JUST MIGHT trump whatever Japanese atrocities you are referring to, and you are referring to them in such a way as to make the Holocaust look small?

Huh? The Holocaust isn't "cheating in the rules of warfare". It's despicable, but it has nothing at all to do with cheating. The Holocaust didn't even have anything at all to do with warfare. Why are you trying to change the subject, instead of admitting that you made an indefensible statement?

Yes, I guess I am going to have to ask you for such examples afterall.

Well that's certainly not difficult, moron. Here you go:

1) The treatment of POWs in places such as the Hanoi Hilton, which has been well-documented in many places.

2) Yuki Tanaka, Poison Gas, the Story Japan Would Like to Forget, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, October 1988, p.17
Another example is the battle of Yichang in October 1941, during which the 19th Artillery Regiment helped the 13th Brigade of the 11th Army by launching 1,000 yellow gas shells and 1,500 red gas shells at the Chinese forces. The area was crowded with Chinese civilians prohibited by the Shōwa army from evacuating. Some 3,000 Chinese soldiers were in the area and 1,600 were affected. The Japanese report say that "the effect of gas seems considerable"

3) http://www.house.gov/bordallo/gwcrc/RL30606.pdf
At least nine out of 12 crew members survived the crash of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-29 bomber on Kyūshū, on May 5, 1945. (This plane was Lt. Marvin Watkins' crew of the 29th Bomb Group of the 6th Bomb Squadron.) The bomber's commander was sent to Tokyo for interrogation, while the other survivors were taken to the anatomy department of Kyushu University, at Fukuoka, where they were subjected to vivisection or killed.

Need I really go on?

I'll defend it all day and night, with specific examples if you ask. of course, I asked you first, and I guess that is a problem for you.

You're such a fucking dumbass.[/quote]


Gee Woodruff, do you eat with that mouth?!?! You use to be so civil. Yes, you were quite bland with most of your past posts, that is, before your self-imposed exile from C.C..

BUT, now you have resorted to all things, you used to find offensive. Now look at you....really Woodruff, just look at your abusive language. Certainly you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say............MY GOD!

Listen up Woodruff, it all starts with small animals. Today abusive language and the next thing you know....BANG! To the showers with you vermin!

You are becoming what you fought against before your self-imposed exile. Seek help now, before you start really hurting people.

Remember the Rape of Nanking!


The loyal drone of C.C.
GS

[Woodruff]

I'll defend it all day and night, with specific examples if you ask. of course, I asked you first, and I guess that is a problem for you.

You're such a fucking dumbass.

Gee Woodruff, do you eat with that mouth?!?! You use to be so civil. Yes, you were quite bland with most of your past posts, that is, before your self-imposed exile from C.C..
BUT, now you have resorted to all things, you used to find offensive. Now look at you....really Woodruff, just look at your abusive language. Certainly you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say............MY GOD!
Listen up Woodruff, it all starts with small animals. Today abusive language and the next thing you know....BANG! To the showers with you vermin!
You are becoming what you fought against before your self-imposed exile. Seek help now, before you start really hurting people.
Remember the Rape of Nanking!
The loyal drone of C.C.
GS

It's not my fault Phatscotty is such a fucking dumbass. I don't make the news, I only report the news.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I love the new Woodruff.

It's like...CC corrupted him or somethin.
Can you imagine one of his students failing a class?

"You're a fuckin tit!"

[Woodruff]

I love the new Woodruff.

It's like...CC corrupted him or somethin.
Can you imagine one of his students failing a class?

"You're a fuckin tit!"

<laughing> I must admit, I found that funny. But if you guys are REALLY paying attention, you see clearly that it is only with isolated individuals that "the new me" presents itself. My willingness to tolerate inanity is at a low threshold.

[GENERAL STONEHAM]

Woodruff, you shameless hussie!

At least you don't resort to "passive aggressive" tactics like AA Fitz. For which I commend you.

The loyal drone of C.C.
GS

[Woodruff]

Do you actually need me to list the well-documented atrocities committed by the Japanese, or do you want to just quit with the delaying tactics and admit you made a statement that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny?

well, for starters, thank you for allowing me the esteemed privilege of being aware that you are talking about the Japanese and not the Germans.....
thank you thank you. is it still ok if I request you to be more specific, instead of you just saying "WW2" and then assuming I understand you are talking about japanese atrocities.

Given that I made the general reference to WW2 and given that the Japanese atrocities are well-documented and well-known, I really didn't think it would be necessary to specify it. I'm rather surprised that I would need to and can only figure that this is your method of weaseling out of trying to back up your indefensible statement.

you are so far out of line here, that I am questioning your weaselness. Germans....holocaust.....might....JUST MIGHT trump whatever Japanese atrocities you are referring to, and you are referring to them in such a way as to make the Holocaust look small?

Huh? The Holocaust isn't "cheating in the rules of warfare". It's despicable, but it has nothing at all to do with cheating. The Holocaust didn't even have anything at all to do with warfare. Why are you trying to change the subject, instead of admitting that you made an indefensible statement?

Yes, I guess I am going to have to ask you for such examples afterall.

Well that's certainly not difficult, moron. Here you go:

1) Yuki Tanaka, Poison Gas, the Story Japan Would Like to Forget, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, October 1988, p.17
Another example is the battle of Yichang in October 1941, during which the 19th Artillery Regiment helped the 13th Brigade of the 11th Army by launching 1,000 yellow gas shells and 1,500 red gas shells at the Chinese forces. The area was crowded with Chinese civilians prohibited by the Shōwa army from evacuating. Some 3,000 Chinese soldiers were in the area and 1,600 were affected. The Japanese report say that "the effect of gas seems considerable"

2) http://www.house.gov/bordallo/gwcrc/RL30606.pdf
At least nine out of 12 crew members survived the crash of a U.S. Army Air Forces B-29 bomber on Kyūshū, on May 5, 1945. (This plane was Lt. Marvin Watkins' crew of the 29th Bomb Group of the 6th Bomb Squadron.) The bomber's commander was sent to Tokyo for interrogation, while the other survivors were taken to the anatomy department of Kyushu University, at Fukuoka, where they were subjected to vivisection or killed.

Need I really go on?

I'll defend it all day and night, with specific examples if you ask. of course, I asked you first, and I guess that is a problem for you.

So Scotty...you were going to defend yourself "all day and night"...and yet, all I'm hearing is crickets chirping. It appears that the problem wasn't with me...the problem appears that you seem to have lost your tap-shoes. But I'm sure you'll find them shortly enough!

[Juan_Bottom]

Since when are we a fascist state? As far as I know, more than 50% of the people in the US are against the war in Iraq, which is why we have a president who has promised to end the war.

However, to claim that means we are a fascist state and bringing back "brown shirts" shows an extreme lack of understanding

The "brown shirts" as you put it used economic turmoil to lay blame on particular "races" (their term) of people and on "deficients" (also their term). They accepted NO responsibility for any action, but instead chose to exterminate anyone who they perceived as not fitting their model -- be it for political or other means.

Bush set up a government of "yes men" and people who were quite intent on telling Bush things that would make Bush act in ways that served their interest. Bush is not stupid, but any president is partially a puppet. Bush perhaps more than others in some specific areas. I blame the real tragedies of this war on Cheney. Not just Blackwater, but many decision that were made largely to benefit particular US business interests instead of the people.

However, claims that the US is "fascist" or that Bush was Hitler do nothing to advance truth.

There is, IMO, more than a kernel of truth to likening the American Imperialistic Empire to a fascist state, but I would say it's more on the world level than simply a national one. A few examples of similarities:

Post 911 the American Government Detained/arrested over 1000 people on US soil and questioned them... held without charges or trial. Some time ago, they were all deported. The Media never really made an issue of it, but there is no information on who these people are or why they were detained.

We have kidnapped internationally somewhere over a thousand people and held them without trial, in secret locations. Some of these people where kidnapped (which is always a violation of international law) within the borders of foreign sovereign states... And I'm only talking about the ones kidnapped as terror suspects. Alun Jones, an attorney representing the United States has stated, in English courts that the United States has the right of "Extraordinary Rendition" worldwide. This has solidified the precedent of America abducting foreign nationals.

The US government routinely has employed torture as a tactic to gain information. Including boiling people alive. Fascists are known to not care about other people's rights to life and happiness.

Fascists use laws to control their people but then do not follow them themselves. We've pretty much been an offender to international laws since we first installed them.

Our government routinely uses scapegoats to unify its people or to simply protect itself. My favorite example is.... well here's an excerpt from Wiki:

The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

While this statement may or may not be entirely genuine, it is now known that Karpinski's superiors at the very least had known exactly what had been going on. Evidence suggests that her superiors were in fact the one's authorizing prisoner abuse.

We ignore our problems at home while glorifying the military and giving them a sh!tload of money. Black budget spending tripled (or more?) under Bush as more Senators and Congressmen where given the power to add to it. Our military is given priority over the rest of the nation's well being, and that is a hallmark attribute of a fascist state.

We demand the right to place weapons in space to defend our satellites despite there being no credible threat from here, and worldwide experts telling us that it's an idiotic idea. There are also allegedly terrorists behind every bush and tree. Fascist governments are often paranoid and like to fabricate unifying and "reliable" threats for their peoples. National Security is a/the prime interest of a fascist state. Usually for purposes of misleading people and to control political unrest. Bush installed the Department of Homeland Security.

Actually, here are some good talking points:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[PLAYER57832]

It is folly for sheep to make a peace with the wolves.

...maybe someone will get my drift

It is folly to pretend there are only sheep and wolves.

[PLAYER57832]

Since when are we a fascist state? As far as I know, more than 50% of the people in the US are against the war in Iraq, which is why we have a president who has promised to end the war.

However, to claim that means we are a fascist state and bringing back "brown shirts" shows an extreme lack of understanding

The "brown shirts" as you put it used economic turmoil to lay blame on particular "races" (their term) of people and on "deficients" (also their term). They accepted NO responsibility for any action, but instead chose to exterminate anyone who they perceived as not fitting their model -- be it for political or other means.

Bush set up a government of "yes men" and people who were quite intent on telling Bush things that would make Bush act in ways that served their interest. Bush is not stupid, but any president is partially a puppet. Bush perhaps more than others in some specific areas. I blame the real tragedies of this war on Cheney. Not just Blackwater, but many decision that were made largely to benefit particular US business interests instead of the people.

However, claims that the US is "fascist" or that Bush was Hitler do nothing to advance truth.

There is, IMO, more than a kernel of truth to likening the American Imperialistic Empire to a fascist state, but I would say it's more on the world level than simply a national one. A few examples of similarities:

Post 911 the American Government Detained/arrested over 1000 people on US soil and questioned them... held without charges or trial. Some time ago, they were all deported. The Media never really made an issue of it, but there is no information on who these people are or why they were detained.

We have kidnapped internationally somewhere over a thousand people and held them without trial, in secret locations. Some of these people where kidnapped (which is always a violation of international law) within the borders of foreign sovereign states... And I'm only talking about the ones kidnapped as terror suspects. Alun Jones, an attorney representing the United States has stated, in English courts that the United States has the right of "Extraordinary Rendition" worldwide. This has solidified the precedent of America abducting foreign nationals.

The US government routinely has employed torture as a tactic to gain information. Including boiling people alive. Fascists are known to not care about other people's rights to life and happiness.

Fascists use laws to control their people but then do not follow them themselves. We've pretty much been an offender to international laws since we first installed them.

Our government routinely uses scapegoats to unify its people or to simply protect itself. My favorite example is.... well here's an excerpt from Wiki:

The commanding officer at the prison, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not even allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

While this statement may or may not be entirely genuine, it is now known that Karpinski's superiors at the very least had known exactly what had been going on. Evidence suggests that her superiors were in fact the one's authorizing prisoner abuse.

We ignore our problems at home while glorifying the military and giving them a sh!tload of money. Black budget spending tripled (or more?) under Bush as more Senators and Congressmen where given the power to add to it. Our military is given priority over the rest of the nation's well being, and that is a hallmark attribute of a fascist state.

We demand the right to place weapons in space to defend our satellites despite there being no credible threat from here, and worldwide experts telling us that it's an idiotic idea. There are also allegedly terrorists behind every bush and tree. Fascist governments are often paranoid and like to fabricate unifying and "reliable" threats for their peoples. National Security is a/the prime interest of a fascist state. Usually for purposes of misleading people and to control political unrest. Bush installed the Department of Homeland Security.

Actually, here are some good talking points:
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

I know these things happened. They actually were reported on in some "alternative" media sources.

That said, to claim this is a change, rather means you are unaware of our history. To say we differ highly from other countries in these events, says you are not that aware of world events. (neither of which do I really believe to be true). There are some exceptions, but we are by no means the only "democratized" nation, to do these things. That doesn't excuse our actions, but it does again bear question to the "fascist" assertion. Also, as despicable as these actions are, there is always a difference in the way a country treats its own citizens and those outside. Fascists tend to oppress their own people as much as a "few others". (but again, I am in no way offering excuses for those actions).

[PLAYER57832]

you are so far out of line here, that I am questioning your weaselness. Germans....holocaust.....might....JUST MIGHT trump whatever Japanese atrocities you are referring to, and you are referring to them in such a way as to make the Holocaust look small?

I don't have the stomache to get into details again, at least right now. However, as despicable and horrible as the holocaust was (NO dispute there!), it is not necessarily worse than what the Japanese did, except the the Germans were more methodical, their victims were white and have been pilliared so much as the "ultimate evil", many westerners don't even bother to question the assertion.