Monsters! - Battle for the Powerstones

[dolomite13]

I have been ion quite a few games this far and think that we should consider a few possible changes.

-GP- Gameplay Change
-GR- Graphic Change

1) -GP- In some games one player can get lucky and can take out a runebound monster and even a powerstone on turn 1 and they get +5 armies putting them way ahead. I would like to propose lowering runebound monster by 1 and increasing powerstones by 1 or possibly 2. This would make it a little easier to take a runebound monster initially and slightly less of a "luck" strategy. The powerstones on the other hand are the gateway to jumping across the map, and I believe they should be increased slightly.

2) -GP- I also believe that the bonus for holding a runebound monster and powerstone is a bit high. So I am proposing that the bonuses be dropped by 1 to (+1 for a runebound monster and +2 for a powerstone).

3) -GP- I am starting to think that there should be a reason that holding your wizard is important. So I propose a +1 bonus for holding your wizard and its matching runebound monster. I know that I just said above the bonus for runebound monsters is a bit too high at 2 and proposed lowering it to 1 and that this change would restore that bonus. However in my experience thus far it is a little harder to hold those runebound monsters than you would think so it isn't a guaranteed bonus.

4) -GR- the units are a little hard to see on the map ... should the unit circles be made more opaque so that units appears easier to read on the map.

5) -GR- some people don't get the connection routes for the lightening bolts and mind blast. Should there be an icon by each monster that can be attacked by a mind blast and an icon by each shield and powerstone denoting they can be bombarded by lightening blast?

6) -GR- while there are runes to signal the attack path for wizards and runebound monsters should I consider adding a visible connection between the wizards and their corresponding runebound monsters?



I know this is a lot of proposed changes, although some are only cosmetic. But I would really like to know if people see the same things I am seeing and what they think about these possible changes?

=D=

[natty dread]

1) agreed.
2) not sure about this... but on the other hand, combined with 3) it could be good.
4) yep
5) perhaps a small lightning for lightning bolt and .. hmm.. mind blast could have, for example, the "om" symbol:



6)nah... i don't think this is necessary.

[dolomite13]

I created a orange/yellow lightning bolt icon for that but when it came to mind blast i was baffled till I looked up hypnosis and found a few cartoon characters that had swirls over their eyes. I created a green/yellow swirl and put it over the eye of the runebound monsters and I think I have the effect I was looking for. I added some arrows and icons to the key at the bottom as well to try and help people understand attack paths. I also made the unit circles more opaque. Lastly I added the changes to bonus as proposed above. I will run the sample xml/map later and post the sample unit images soon so we can see if the new circles help at all. Please feel free to comment about the icons etc...

=D=

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/451 ... 25a4_o.png



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2796/451 ... 86e6_o.png

Click image to enlarge.

[danryan]

I think the mind blast vs. lightning bolt is pretty unbalanced. Mind blast is much much more powerful, lightning bolt never gets used in any of the games I've been in so far. Maybe allow lightning bolt to advance as well?

[natty dread]

Or allow lightning bolt to bombard wizards directly.

[dolomite13]

I think the mind blast vs. lightning bolt is pretty unbalanced. Mind blast is much much more powerful, lightning bolt never gets used in any of the games I've been in so far. Maybe allow lightning bolt to advance as well?

I have seen it used but it isn't really that useful against shields, however it is quite useful in keeping your opponents off of the powerstones. But you are right that it is hard to use because it resets to 3 neutral and people waste armies.

Or allow lightning bolt to bombard wizards directly.

Hmmm... I wanted the wizards to be protected by their shield and not vulnerable to any assaults or bombards withought going through the shield.

The thing about the spells is this, I wanted them to reset to 3 neutral for a reason. The spells are part of the powerstones ability. If the powerstone was captured you has access to the spell otherwise you didn't.

It would be a change in how I think about the spells to change the killer nature and do something like have spells degrade -2 per turn instead of being killer.

I suppose we could think of spells as something the wizard already knows just doesn't have the power to use, and when he has a powerstone he can channel the stones power and life-force of the monsters under his control into a temporary power storage for that spell. However the cavern is still effecting his ability to hold onto that power.

So here is my proposal.

Spells will no longer be "killer" in nature and simply loose 2 armies per turn.

Let me know if this would give you incentive to use lightening bolt...

=D=

[MrBenn]

A lightning bolt is the obvious choice of image for that one; for Mind Blast, perhaps a small cloud or small brain?
You could actually use a larger representation of it on the actual army circle, with small ones near the corresponding monsters on the main map...

[natty dread]

Mind blast will become too powerful if it only has a decay... Make it so that mind blast is killer but lighning bolt has -2 decay, or perhaps only -1 even.

[dolomite13]

A lightning bolt is the obvious choice of image for that one; for Mind Blast, perhaps a small cloud or small brain?
You could actually use a larger representation of it on the actual army circle, with small ones near the corresponding monsters on the main map...

Cloud or Brain hmmm interesting I will try some icons this evening and see how they look.... Although I'm starting ti think an icon isn't necessary as there is already a rune symbol and i could just add the mini rune to the key.

What is your thought on the possible mechanics changes proposed?

=D=

[danryan]

Mind blast will become too powerful if it only has a decay... Make it so that mind blast is killer but lighning bolt has -2 decay, or perhaps only -1 even.

Agreed, I'd try lightning bolt decay -1 and mind blast reset. I like having the shield protecting the wizzo, shouldn't be able to get around that.

[dolomite13]

Mind blast will become too powerful if it only has a decay... Make it so that mind blast is killer but lighning bolt has -2 decay, or perhaps only -1 even.

Hmmm... that may work ...

- Mind Blast resets to 3 every turn.
- Lightening Bolt looses 1 unit every turn.

Finding a spot on the key is the hard part for that extra line.

Perhapse I could shorten the intro text at the top and put the bonus text up there ... would that be confusing to look in two areas for map rules?
I suppose I could move the monsters around a bit but thats alot of work including xml changes ... If only I could make the map 820 x 820 (615 x 615 small) instead of 820 x 800 that extra 20 pixels would make all the difference.

=D=

[dolomite13]

This map reflects the above changes

=D=

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2778/452 ... 3b00_o.png


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/452 ... 465c_o.png

[MarshalNey]

you spelled "loses" as "looses".

I'm not certain how this very, very common spelling error got started or who started it, but I will find that individual someday and make him write the word one time on a chalkboard for every person misled...

[dolomite13]

Ah i always do that ... i'll fix it tomorrow if we decide to go with the proposed changes. I have a small amount of XML to change and have checked as well.

=D=

[dolomite13]

How about this then =)

=D=

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/452 ... d75c_o.png



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/452 ... 609d_o.png

Click image to enlarge.

[dolomite13]

With sample numbers

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/452 ... 1eeb_o.png

Click image to enlarge.

[pmchugh]

Nooooooooo, keep it the same. I love it the way it is. (in terms of gameplay).

[Incandenza]

A couple things:

1. Legibility is all well and good, but before you start adding more icons to the map, I propose you let it play for another week or so and see if there are more complaints. Personally, I've got little sympathy for players on a complex map who clearly can't be bothered to read the legend and expect to be experts at the map on round 1 of their first game.
2. For whatever reason BOB doesn't like how the killer neutrals are structured or something when it comes to the stats, leading a long-ass line of 'em that stretches the window way out.

Congrats on the Beta, btw. I gotta get a game or two in on this one.

[dolomite13]

All of the above changes are still just proposed ideas... I am still in many games and watching what I can of other games as well to see whats happening in them... =)

thanx for the feedback

=D=

[Hopscotcher]

I definitely like the idea of keeping the Lightning Attack. I've only seen it used once or twice with the reset. Awesome map though!

[natty dread]

This is an awesome map dolomite! Thanks for making this.

Escalating games are really interesting when you most of the time have to count the extra 8 into the troop counts when you plan a kill... And eliminating takes some skill, with the isolated areas and lots of dead-end territories. Really fun for escalating games!

And thanks for the points I made on the map, got me back to officer ranks

I really mostly play escalating these days (I like the game dynamic of esc.) so the bonuses don't matter that much to me... but that change of lightning bolt would definitely be good. I actually used lightning bolt in the game I won, but that was just out of spite, I could have done without too... Give the lightning bolt a -2 decay, that way it will be useful but won't become another "bombard neutrals for cards" territory...

[juli]

I thought that the wizards shield went back to 8 every turn or round, in this case game 6859877 only has 2 left on Purlin's shield. and has not gone back to 8.

[natty dread]

Killer neutrals reset only when the player who holds them begins his turn.

[juli]

TY... clear

[dolomite13]

I am actually starting to think that no changes need to be made to the map. Sure lightening bolt isn't all that useful is most games, however I have seen it used more and more when the game comes down to 3 or 4 opponents that have built up a force to deny that extra bonus. I am still closely monitoring it tho.

=D=