South Africa 1885

[Industrial Helix]

I'm gonna give this thing a bump as it should be the next map into the Gameplay Workshop as 13 Colonies is in Beta and it looks like Italian and German Unification are soon for Beta as well. SO gameplay crits are well appreciated as are graphics.

[danryan]

North cape and east cape are too similar in color. But I love the strong theme and how it applies to the graphics! Really liking what's coming through the foundry these days.

[AndyDufresne]

Looking forward to the continued development of this map.


--Andy

[rdsrds2120]

I liked the background in V6 instead of just WHITE in V7. Too much white is a strain on the eyes, and the brownish color was reminding me of like an old map or something, since this IS supposed to be a map from 1855. Otherwise good job so far.

[Industrial Helix]

13 Colonies is quenched, time to move this baby on!

[natty dread]

I concur.

[Domovoi]

"Bloamfontein"?
Shouldn't that be "Bloemfontein"?

(Or maybe it was spelled like that in 1885?)

[Industrial Helix]

"Bloamfontein"?
Shouldn't that be "Bloemfontein"?

(Or maybe it was spelled like that in 1885?)

You could be on to something... and yes, I believe you are correct. I'll make the change!

[TaCktiX]

Looked over this map, looks more than ready for the Gameplay Workshop.

(Yeah, we've got a new image)

[natty dread]

Waah! Now I'm kinda pissed... I asked MrBenn if I could design the "design brief stamp" and he said they were not interested in introducing a stamp for design briefs... and now they've went and made it anyway...

On the other hand I'm glad to see this map moving forward. Good job IH.

[Industrial Helix]

Waah! Now I'm kinda pissed... I asked MrBenn if I could design the "design brief stamp" and he said they were not interested in introducing a stamp for design briefs... and now they've went and made it anyway...

On the other hand I'm glad to see this map moving forward. Good job IH.

Tack just whipped it up on his own. Neither he nor I were aware you offered.

Anyway, here's an update for South Africa.... I tweaked the colors and the white tone. I also fixed some spelling errors adn lightened up the mountains. Now that we're in the gameplay workshop, lets talk gameplay!

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Nah, that's ok. Glad that my idea got implemented anyway.

The map is looking good. Could you whip up some kind of data of the bonuses? Something like what I did when I was working out the gameplay for the Nordic map... (check out the first page of the thread to see what I mean... You know, each bonus area, with number of territories, number of borders and bonus value). This would be helpful to analyzing the gameplay.

[Industrial Helix]

Yeah, I've got the spread sheet somewhere around here... I'll give it a look this afternoon.

[Industrial Helix]

Alright, I've put up a new poll: Do you want this map?

I'd just like to know i this thing has any support or not, there's no shame in voting no. Thanks!

[WestWind]

I like this map a lot- graphics are unique and interesting, it's not an area that's gotten much attention, and the gameplay looks solid. My only suggestion would be to try and make it not quite so heavily based on just regions. What I mean by this is to add in either some unique attack or bonus systems that reflect what this area was like in that time period. For example (and my history for this area sucks, so I'm making this up), say that Swaziland was a base for guerilla fighters. They get a low troop bonus, but maybe they can one-way attack some large urban areas to make up for it. Maybe there was a faction in that era that had sea domination- maybe give them access to a region that can bombard any port city. These are just a few ideas- obviously you know more than I do about this subject and can probably come up with better ideas.

This is just a suggestion, though. The map already looks very good as-is, and if you want to keep it more traditional that's your call- I still think it would be a great map. It's just that, if you couldn't tell, I'm a fan of adding some unique properties to maps that make it neat and fun to play

Regardless, very nice work so far. I'll be watching this one with a lot of interest.

[Industrial Helix]

I like this map a lot- graphics are unique and interesting, it's not an area that's gotten much attention, and the gameplay looks solid. My only suggestion would be to try and make it not quite so heavily based on just regions. What I mean by this is to add in either some unique attack or bonus systems that reflect what this area was like in that time period. For example (and my history for this area sucks, so I'm making this up), say that Swaziland was a base for guerilla fighters. They get a low troop bonus, but maybe they can one-way attack some large urban areas to make up for it. Maybe there was a faction in that era that had sea domination- maybe give them access to a region that can bombard any port city. These are just a few ideas- obviously you know more than I do about this subject and can probably come up with better ideas.

This is just a suggestion, though. The map already looks very good as-is, and if you want to keep it more traditional that's your call- I still think it would be a great map. It's just that, if you couldn't tell, I'm a fan of adding some unique properties to maps that make it neat and fun to play

Regardless, very nice work so far. I'll be watching this one with a lot of interest.

Well, I guess I'm looking for some sort of gimmick gameplay to add to this map cause standard tends to be a little dull sometimes. The trouble is, its very hard to find any information on a lot of these warrior cultures. It took me hours and hours of research just to find out what the poeple of Griqualand called their warriors (and much to my interest they were called Bastard Commandos reflecting heir mixed race heritage).

The whole area was actually dominated by the British for all intents and purposes. The Boers had some self-determination but really they were reliant on the British. The later became a problem for the British in the 1890s and 1900s in two bloody wars. They focused on basic army versus army warfare, I believe, and combined it with some guerrilla tactics.

The Zulu's tried to wage war against the Empire in 1879-80 using typical army vs army tactics and eventually lost, thus the British razed Ulundi and incorporated the former kingdom into South Africa.

The Swazis, Basutos and Amatongans caused little problem for the British and more relied on British protection against the Zulus and Boers.

So there's the basic history of the states... And now that I think about it and have typed my way through it I think I have an idea...

[Industrial Helix]

And that idea is to add a war dynamic to the game. British ships were required to bring in supplies and guns, the Boers in 1900 used Lee-Enfield rifles to wage their war, for example, and got them from British merchants. The Zulus, on the other hand, used shields and assegis... obviously not imported from Britain. So hence, forts and ships.

Though as I'm thinking about it, perhaps this might need some refining.

What if I did 4 ships and 4 forts, each as starting positions... the rest of the map open deployment 3rd Crusade style except, forts and ships auto-deploy one.

The other option is to make players seize the forts and ships to get supplies and have them start at a neutral number.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

I like the idea of mixed deployment & autodeploys... it would suit this map I think. You should go with that.

[isaiah40]

I like the idea of seizing the forts and ships to gain supplies, seems to fit the theme of the map better IMO. Start them out as, oh, 5 neutral maybe? You can have a bonus of +2 for every fort/ship combo which gets auto deployed on a ship. Maybe +10 for holding all forts and ships which are auto deployed on a ship. Just thinking out loud here.

[natty dread]

Btw... are those the same ships from your 13 colonies map?

[Industrial Helix]

Well, I'm entertaining the idea of maybe having the forts start at a high neutral and have a higher yield. First stage of the game you go for territory or peoples, then raid the armory and wage major war. In which case, I would suppose that the forts and ships ought to be their own territories rather than part of the territories.

And yes, I swiped those ships from my 13 Colonies map for these early purposes

[isaiah40]

That's kind of what I was thinking, that they should be their own territory with maybe a 10 -15 neutral?

[WestWind]

Well, I'm entertaining the idea of maybe having the forts start at a high neutral and have a higher yield. First stage of the game you go for territory or peoples, then raid the armory and wage major war. In which case, I would suppose that the forts and ships ought to be their own territories rather than part of the territories.

And yes, I swiped those ships from my 13 Colonies map for these early purposes

I like it- it would add a pretty unique element to the gameplay. Maybe it would be a new twist if you gave the region bonuses significantly less of a bonus than you would normally have? For example, instead of giving a region 4 bonus troops as in a typical map, you only give them 2? That would really shift emphasis over to the forts and ships.

[Industrial Helix]

Alright guys, here is what I'm thinking. Something along the lines of a two phase gameplay, though the two phases will vary with different card sets, ect.

Phase 1) Standard gameplay on the map with standard regional bonuses.
Phase 2) Once the troop numbers start getting higher, such as in escalating or perhaps flat rate, patient no spoils or a lucky nuke, then you seize the arms stores and weapons shipments and wage a full fledged war.

The idea is to gather the support of the nation you represent, Boers, Zulus, British, Basuto, or what have you, and then when you've got popular support you make a move on the British arms depots and forts or get a weapons shipment from an arms contractor in Britain. With new guns and ammo, you're cause has a new means to the end: conquering South Africa.

For me, it's important that the auto-deploys don't take effect until well into the game, I'm thinking round 6-10. But at the same time they need to pay off well enough to warrant taking.

I'm also considering swapping from auto-deploys to a super bonus system. Forts and Ships supply weapons to each area of population you control: +1 for every territory owned while holding a fort. OR holding the arms supply doubles the value of all people-groups. Thoughts?

[WestWind]

I like the direction you're taking this, it should be fun to play. My only concern would be balancing the map just right so that 90% of the games don't end with none of the forts/ships being taken. I guess you just have to figure out how to balance the risk/reward of the additional bonuses just right.

Also, I like your idea of doubling the bonus if a fort or ship is held. I think it fits the gameplay you're going for the best out of all the other ideas.

This is looking great, by the way. Can't wait to play it.