South Africa 1885

[MarshalNey]

Definitely like the 2-phase idea.

Also, my vote is for the super-bonus over the autodeploy. More intuitive connection that way to "arming a populace". I'm for doubling the people-group bonus over the +1 per territory, but both are better than autodeploy I think.

I know that in games like Treasures of Gallapagos, the 10-spot Luggers never get used, because the benefit is too small. So heeding Westwind's advice, I think you'll have to feel your way towards a good neutral value. My personal feeling is that the Superbonus scheme will make the forts attractive enough even with a neutral 10... but the ships will be largely viewed as a permanent barrier at 10 in all but escalating games.

[Industrial Helix]

Well the forts will be interior and the ships will be coastal territories. Both will have the same advantage but slightly different dynamic.

And the double bonus is still a possibility. But if you've got a bonus, it's likely better to defend at the borders than risk an interior move on your own territory for guns. I think a bonus offering of +1 for every territory held might be more attractive.

Such a move would be interesting because the plan of storing up men on the territory and sacking the fort won't work if you've only got the territory you've stacked men on. I want the circumstances of sacking a fort to be more like: a player will likely need a land bonus before he can think about sacking the fort.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, it has occurred to me that no one in their right mind with a bonus to defend would turn around and knock out 15 neutrals to simply double their bonus. The idea is ridiculous and I'm ashamed to have thought of it.

So here's the next gameplay adjustment: Forts and Ships double all bonuses and now start at a neutral 3. For the Zulus, this means a rapid rise to power but the 4 territory British could also meet them in that rapid rise to power.

One of the Boer states might get some tinkering with borders to make it more defensible.

I'm also considering annexing Amatongaland and Swaziland to Zululand as it would make the Zulus a tad less powerful. There is historical precedent in this as well as the Zulu's often raided these lands. Thoughts?

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

Now if you do that which sounds and looks good IMO, what would the bonus be? +4, which I think would be a good number and fair.

[natty dread]

Amatongaland + Zululand yes, but Swaziland would be better to keep as a separate bonus...

[Industrial Helix]

Alright guys, take a look at this:

Click image to enlarge.

I changed the borders on some of the Boer bonus regions and I expanded Zululand at the expense of Amatongland... and whoops... forgot to get rid of Amatongaland in the legend.

[army of nobunaga]

looks like a damn good map to me. will take me a bit to digest the bonus structures


edit, east cape looks like a nightmare to hold, but i dunno

[Industrial Helix]

East cape will likely be a nightmare to hold... but all bonuses weren't meant to be easy right?

I imagine the easy to grab power spots would be Orange Free State, Zululand and West Cape.

Basutoland, Griqualand, Stellaland and Swaziland are all easy to get and get a bonus, but they have no long term power due to lack of guns. Might make nice starting points for further movement towards one of the powerhouse colonies. Actually Swaziland, if you want to deal with the neutrals, would make a great easy take start point for further expansion into zululand. But I expect a neutral 3 to deter a number of players.

[army of nobunaga]

in reality neutral 3s are ball busters (see atlantis for neutral ball busting) I would consider making east cape worth 4. Just to make it more of a suicide run with high reward for those with guts.

Still a damn nice map imo

[Industrial Helix]

in reality neutral 3s are ball busters (see atlantis for neutral ball busting) I would consider making east cape worth 4. Just to make it more of a suicide run with high reward for those with guts.

Still a damn nice map imo

I'm not opposed to that entirely... it would be a bonus for someone with some guts if it were their first bonus, but if it is someone's second bonus then holding the territory becomes a game finisher and that might be making the territory too powerful.

[isaiah40]

Looking at the legend area and the map I am a little confused. Can you put the territory names in some sort of order? Looks like from north-east to south-west would be the best way to go. Thanks

[AndyDufresne]

From a gameplay stand point, I don't see much for me to comment on. It looks like the right side of the map will be where a lot of battles occur, however, I think West Cape and the Ports will help to spread out that map more in a good way.


--Andy

[Evil DIMwit]

Looking over the bonuses, there are some adjustments I think you should make, particularly in light of the fact that some bonus zones now include a fort, which I think ought to lower the base bonus, since anyone who holds one of those bonuses is almost guaranteed to have it doubled. Also, a few other factors, which I note below:

South African Republic: Nerf to 3, since it's so easy to hold along with Swaziland and Stellaland (held as a group, the bonus calculator gives them about 6), and also since it's one of the least central bonuses to hold, and has the least central fort -- even if you lower the bonus it's still a terrific place to hole up.
Orange Free State: Nerf to 4 or 5, since it has a fort, it only takes 4 territories to defend, and there's easy expansion into Basutoland with no gain in defending territories.
Zululand: Nerf to 4 since it has a fort and really shouldn't be worth all that much in the first place.
Amatongaland: Nerf to not listed in the legend because it's not an independent bonus anymore.
Natal: Nerf to 4 because it has a fort, only takes 3 territories to defend, and can expand into Zululand with moderate ease.
East Cape: Raise to 4 or 5 since it's just so darn hard to hold.
North Cape: Raise to 4 or 5 for the same reason.

Also, I recommend you sort the bonus legend according to geography so bonuses are easier to find on the list.

[Industrial Helix]

@Isaiah... the problem is that Griqualand and Orange Free State don't fit if they get shoved down the column. But I hear your confusion and I'll give it some thought and figure out how to change it for the better.

@Andy - Well, yeah it seems that way but the important thing to keep in mind is that each Cape Territory is about 4 terrs apiece... so about as big as Zululand. We'll see how the games play out though...

@Evil Dim... made the all but 1 of the bonus adjustments but I want to point out that the Forts are separate territories than those they sit on. Not sure if that was clear or not.
South African Rep. I put at 4, one higher than you suggested. I did this because I think holding the SAR will be difficult because it will take so long to gather up while other players at that point will most likely have a bonus and be inflicting damage on the weaker player trying to gain the large bonus.

As for adjusting the legend. I will do so once I figure out how it would best work out. The problem is I can't just reshuffle cause the longer names won't have room down south as they will run onto the territories. I'm thinking about something though, it just might be a few days until I come up with it.

Here's the new image:

Click image to enlarge.

[Evil DIMwit]

I don't see that you have too much of a problem with the legend. You've only got three really long names and they're all in the same general area. What's the problem with
Grigua Land West
Orange Free State
South African Republic
Stellaland
Swazi Land
Zululand
Natal
Basutoland
East Cape
West Cape
North Cape

On another note, suppose each port only connects to the nearest ship? That might keep the eastern part of the map from becoming too prominent at the expense of the western part. Or do we want it to be the case that all the weapons are really uncomfortably close to each other?

[Industrial Helix]

Well... I could do that organization. See next update.

As for the ships... I'd be hardpressed to connect Port Noleth to the ship down there. I think with some tinkering I can pull it off though. But yeah, I think 1 port to one ship ought to do. Now should all ports connect as well or is this a land war?

[Evil DIMwit]

I was thinking the two ships off Cathcart could easily connect to the same port; they'd still be farther apart than the fort at Pietermaritzburg and Ulundi.

All ports connecting to each other is fine, and it's been calculated into all the bonus values so I think just leave it like that.

[natty dread]

Well, how about: ports connect to nearest ships, and all ships connect to each other?

[Evil DIMwit]

How about: ports connect to nearest ships, and all ships connect to each other?

I don't think you want ships connecting to each other. If it's too difficult to defend the ships from each other, then players would either be able to wrest the weapons from each other too easily or end up stacking on the ships, chronically worried that someone in the next ship over will take their bonus multiplier away.

[natty dread]

Well how about: ports attack all ships, ships attack nearest ships & nearest ports?

[Industrial Helix]

Ah, real life has been kicking my ass lately but now things are slowing down and I can catch up on these maps... here's what I've done:

reorganized the legend to evil dim's specs.

Removed Port Durnford and its ship as it seems ridiculous that the Zulu's would be importing weapons via sea. They fought with assegis, reflected by their fort. I also renamed the port as well to reflect a more zulu region.

I removed Port Natal as well as it seemed redundant since there was a fort right next to it. I renamed it as well as Port has a sort of sea faring connotation.

So now, the ship bring in British supplies in their main sphere of influence, the Cape Colonies. This makes sense to me and hopefully you all. The forts supply the Boers and Zulus, though I'm sure they got their weapons from abroad as well.

I also renamed South African Republic to Transvaal Republic as Transvaal is the vernacular and indicates a Boer state rather than a British, which is what I'm going for.

Click image to enlarge.

[The Bison King]

It'd be sweet if you could get this done in time for the world cup.

[Industrial Helix]

It'd be sweet if you could get this done in time for the world cup.

That would be cool... World Cup edition with stadiums instead of forts?

[natty dread]

So now all ports border each other and all ships? So why is each port connected to a ship?

[ender516]

It'd be sweet if you could get this done in time for the world cup.

That would be cool... World Cup edition with stadiums instead of forts?

And footballs/soccer balls instead of ship's wheels!