Macedonia map [Gp, Gr, X, BETA, Qnchd.]

[ender516]

I'm going to side with natty on the mini-map issue, but I wonder if pork doesn't have a point (that perhaps he wasn't trying to make ): maybe the bonus values could be placed directly on the map itself, in a manner similar to the Third Crusade. Voila, no more glancing back and forth.

[porkenbeans]

I'm going to side with natty on the mini-map issue, but I wonder if pork doesn't have a point (that perhaps he wasn't trying to make ): maybe the bonus values could be placed directly on the map itself, in a manner similar to the Third Crusade. Voila, no more glancing back and forth.

Anything that would allow the viewer to quickly and easily, visually establish the bonus values, and their correlation to each other, would make this map much better to understand, regardless of any color blind issues.

If you only had two or three bonus areas, then the little boxes would work fine. But with nine bonus areas it is difficult to look at the map and visualize the strength and weakness of the bonus areas, in relation to one another. This IS my point that YOU are failing to understand natty. Ender gets my point, if not my solution. A mini-map IS a solution, as is ender's plan. One of these, or another plan is needed. AND THAT IS MY POINT.

[MrBenn]

Colour-wise, I'd suggest the only thing that needs to be done is to make Strumica perhaps a little darker and redder - similar to the red of the shield in the top corner but not quite as strong

That aside, there are only two things which I can see:

1. The tiny bit of grey within each mountain grates with me... I know it's supposed to look like snow, but I think it would look cleaner without it

2. The order of bonuses in the legend would be better if it followed a logical order from looking at the map. I'd suggest amending the order as follows:

• Tetovo | Skopje
  Ohrid | Kumonova
  Veles | Stip
  Bitola | Berova
  _____ | Strumica

[ender516]

Now for a bit of point, counter-point:

Colour-wise, I'd suggest the only thing that needs to be done is to make Strumica perhaps a little darker and redder - similar to the red of the shield in the top corner but not quite as strong

I think I said before that a purplish colour might be the best way to help the red-green colour-blind, but I think the heavy zone boundaries are enough to make things clear.

That aside, there are only two things which I can see:

1. The tiny bit of grey within each mountain grates with me... I know it's supposed to look like snow, but I think it would look cleaner without it

Personally, I like the grey (or white, which is how it comes across to me). Without it, the mountains might just look like traces on an oscilloscope or a heart monitor.

2. The order of bonuses in the legend would be better if it followed a logical order from looking at the map. I'd suggest amending the order as follows:

• Tetovo | Skopje
  Ohrid | Kumonova
  Veles | Stip
  Bitola | Berova
  _____ | Strumica

I'm not sure why MrBenn wants to bounce back and forth across the map like this, although on a second reading, I guess he is trying to go down the map while he goes down a column of the legend. I am more inclined to read across the map, so I would put

Code: Select all

Tetovo     Skopje
Kumanovo   Berovo
Ohrid      Veles
Stip       Strumica
           Bitola

or possibly

Code: Select all

Tetovo     Skopje
Kumanovo   Berovo
Veles      Stip
Ohrid      Bitola
           Strumica

depending on whether you see Ohrid as part of the middle row of zones or part of the bottom row of zones. Of course, the rows of zones that I see on the map don't fit as rows of names in the legend, and I don't know if shrinking the text there to put more names on one row would be a good idea, so I think we need more opinions and possibly more ideas here.
I do look forward to playing this map.

[n.n.]

It would really be best for me to get some conclusive suggestions on which most of posters here agree...
However, i will try tomorrow to compile the suggestions in a new version.

I will try to apply different colors for the "continents" (for the color blind issue) and maybe some of the other suggestions. Removing the white color from the mountains is really not something i would like to do - mostly because of the reason ender516 already explained.

[MrBenn]

The exact order of the legend doesn't really matter - the important thing is that there is some logic behind it that correlates in some way to the order of territories on the map.

With regards the colour, the red of the shield is noticeably different from the other region colours on the colourblind version of the map:

I'm not pushing for a change, just suggesting that if a change is to be made, it would be easier to make that region darker, rather than doing lots of swapping around.

I really don;t think this map has got long to go now

[ender516]

MrBenn's point about the colour of the shield is a good one. I had not noticed how distinct it was before.

[Orange-Idaho-Dog]

The colors to me, though I'm not color blind, look fine. The bold borders are a rather nice feature on this map, both for the casual player and the colorblind.

The mountains I barely noticed, the only thing I've read that I personally think needs tweaked, is the order of the legend. Otherwise, this map looks ready to go

Can't wait to play.

[thenobodies80]

Agree with MrBenn, try to make Strumica a bit darker.
In any case names and borders are very visible,i don't think that there could be colorblind problems once you've set an order for the legend.
Personally I have no problem if you leave the snow on the mountains, but it would be interesting to compare the two versions.

[n.n.]

Hi,
here is the latest version - 2.1 (06.06.2010)

Changes:
- strumica color - bit darker
- tetovo color - bit lighter
- reordered bonus list

Large:


Small:

[AndyDufresne]

This is one of my favorite new maps in production, so I'm excited to see it keep progressing!

The new legend order is fine. You could also probably do a left to right order...with the two columns being:

Tetvov ___ Kumanovo
Ohrid ___ Stip
Skopje ___ Strumica
Veles ___ Berovo
Bitola

Though the left 5 may not fit in the allotted space, but the geographics of the map do have a 'left' and 'right' look to it, with an imaginary center line.


--Andy

[thenobodies80]

The graphics stamp is around the corner, time to stick this thread!

Try to find the best layout for the legend, then the map is ready for the FF

[Orange-Idaho-Dog]

Tetovo --- Kumanovo
Ohrid --- Stip
Skopje --- Strumica
Veles --- Berovo
Bitola

Hmm.. I came up with this by looking at the map and realized it's exactly the same as Andy suggested. This fits the maps left/right feel, imo.

[MrBenn]

During the last update, it looks like you've played aroubnd with some grunge layers, and done something strange in the Tetovo area - it looks like there's a line where something's been erased??

I've compared the two latest images and I can see you've made lots of small adjustments. The latest version looks good (with the exception of the minor tiny niggle I just mentioned). It might be worth trying an alternative legend arrangement. You could always stagger the second list a bit, if you have 5 on the left and 4 on the right (the tops don;t necessarily need to line up).

[ender516]

Tetovo --- Kumanovo
Ohrid --- Stip
Skopje --- Strumica
Veles --- Berovo
Bitola

Hmm.. I came up with this by looking at the map and realized it's exactly the same as Andy suggested. This fits the maps left/right feel, imo.

At first, I found this order baffling. I didn't get it when Andy suggested it, but I thought, what the hey. But to find that someone else saw it that way too was a little disturbing. I finally see that you guys seem to be reading the zones as four vertical strips, and then stacking those into the two columns of the legend. It still seems awkward to me, since the shape of the map does not suggest verticality to me, so I just read across, then down, like English text.

The whole issue of the ordering of the legend would disappear if a mini-map were used. I know this was raised and discussed previously, and I even sided partially with the 'no mini-map" faction, but the more I see people trying to figure out how to lay out the columns of text so that they correspond with the map, the more I think that the one-to-one correspondence of a mini-map is the way to go, or possibly my other previous suggestion of putting the bonus values directly on the main map.

[Orange-Idaho-Dog]

The mini-map idea is a good one to take care of the issue of the legend, but I don't see how it would fit with the 'feel' of this map. Couldn't hurt to try, however.

I think putting the numbers directly on the map could work out, if an order of the legend can't be decided.

[porkenbeans]

The mini-map idea is a good one to take care of the issue of the legend, but I don't see how it would fit with the 'feel' of this map. Couldn't hurt to try, however.

I think putting the numbers directly on the map could work out, if an order of the legend can't be decided.

I am wondering just what is meant by, the "feel of the map". and someone please explain why a mini-map is NOT inline with the feel of this map ? I honestly do NOT see any conflict at all.

[Orange-Idaho-Dog]

While some maps are simply just a picture of an area, this map's 'style' feels like it's on a real map, zoomed in on Macedonia. I just think a mini-map would look out of place, even though it would solve the issue. Can't be certain, however, unless it is previewed...

[natty dread]

One solution would be to put the minimap on an inset, so it would look like it is part of the map...

[porkenbeans]

One solution would be to put the minimap on an inset, so it would look like it is part of the map...

Very good idea. Mini-maps have been used in cartography for as long as maps have been made. So, it does not in any way, depart from the feel of a "real" map.

Try it with an inset box around it as natty suggests, I think it will do the trick.

[fumandomuerte]

I agree with Natty and PB, a simple mini-map could do the job
But if you decide to use the current boxes I'm OK with that, just arrange them as Andy suggested.

[n.n.]

Hi guys,
thank you for your thoughts, i am on a business trip this week so we must wait for the next update until next week.

During the last update, it looks like you've played aroubnd with some grunge layers, and done something strange in the Tetovo area - it looks like there's a line where something's been erased??

MrBenn - is this about the mountain ridge line in tetovo region?

[MrBenn]

Hi guys,
thank you for your thoughts, i am on a business trip this week so we must wait for the next update until next week.

During the last update, it looks like you've played aroubnd with some grunge layers, and done something strange in the Tetovo area - it looks like there's a line where something's been erased??

MrBenn - is this about the mountain ridge line in tetovo region?

No - it's specifically about a big fat pale blobby line around 30px wide in the Tetovo region. If you switch between the last two images, it jumps right at you (well, it did to me )

[n.n.]

Hi,
here is the latest version - 2.2 (19.06.2010)
I have tried several designs and decided NOT to go with the mini-map.

Changes:
- reordered bonus boxes as suggested

Large:


Small:

[AndyDufresne]

I think the map is fine without a mini-map.

I like it, I like it, I like it.


--Andy