“Is Hamas a terrorist organization?"

[tzor]

Another ‘Moderate’ GZ Mosque Supporter Can’t Bring Himself to Call Hamas a Terrorist Organization - National Review Online

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

[Metsfanmax]

I don't think it's a very simple question. After all, the argument given is totally incorrect - the US overthrew Saddam's regime violently, but the US didn't label itself a terrorist organization. Terrorism is the deliberate creation of fear in an enemy population to coerce them to do something. That's not the same as the violent destruction of Israel. That makes them warlike and destructive, it doesn't necessarily make them terrorists.

[jimboston]

It is a simple question, and the answer is YES.

[tzor]

BUMPAGE (Tzor News Agency) – Bumpage denizens were shocked to discover that jimboston and tzor actually agreed on something. In what was not considered an amazing act of ecumenical inter city reconciliation, the two, in separate press statements called Hamas a “terrorist organization.” Some posters believe this is either a sign that the end of the world is here, or that the Cubs will actually win the World Series. One poster, who refused to give his handle, insisted they were the same event.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was not asked about this and therefore had nothing to say about the matter.

[jimboston]

The cubs won't win this year or next, but they have a shot in 2012.

[heavycola]

Another ‘Moderate’ GZ Mosque Supporter Can’t Bring Himself to Call Hamas a Terrorist Organization - National Review Online

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

[nietzsche]

What if Osama Bin Laden isn't a terrorist. What if he is a charitable soul feeding lost boys in Pakistan?

[ksslemp]

They support the families whose members commit terrorist attacks, their members commit terrorist acts.

So the answer is YES, YES and more YES's

[Juan_Bottom]

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

[ksslemp]

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? NO
Do they raise their children in the hopes that one day they will strap on explosives and vaporize a busload of innocents? NO

[mviola]

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? NO
Do they raise their children in the hopes that one day they will strap on explosives and vaporize a busload of innocents? NO

First part, yes.

[ksslemp]

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? NO
Do they raise their children in the hopes that one day they will strap on explosives and vaporize a busload of innocents? NO

First part, yes.

Example.

[ksslemp]

Would the "Palestinians" be happier without Hamas?
Would there be enclaves like today?
Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family?
and do those that live there now even care about that?

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist?
Would there be blockades without Hamas?

[MeDeFe]

Would the Palestinians be happier without Hamas?

Probably not. Hamas provides a fair amount of services which the Palestinian government doesn't have the means of providing.

Would there be enclaves like today?

I'm not sure what you're referring to so I can't answer.

Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family?

I'm leaning towards "no".

and do those that live there now even care about that?

I think they do.

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist?

Fewer rockets would do next to no damage on territory claimed by Israel. Other than that, probably nothing.

Would there be blockades without Hamas?

Indubitably.


It's as Metsfanmax said, the question isn't easy at all.

[ksslemp]

Would the Palestinians be happier without Hamas?

Probably not. Hamas provides a fair amount of services which the Palestinian government doesn't have the means of providing.
Hmm, really? I'm sure more aid than they know what to do with would flow into these areas if it wasn't for Hamas.

Would there be enclaves like today?

I'm not sure what you're referring to so I can't answer.
I.E. West Bank enclave....... Answer: NO

Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family?

I'm leaning towards "no".
You must have bit your lip when writing that.

and do those that live there now even care about that?

I think they do.
I am apt to agree, they just can't do anything about it while Hamas is in control.

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist?

Fewer rockets would do next to no damage on territory claimed by Israel. Other than that, probably nothing.
yes + Palestinian children would be free to think and feel as they see fit without the thought police looking over their shoulders and being brainwashed in their schools.

Would there be blockades without Hamas?

Indubitably.
This answer more than any other makes everyone painfully aware that you lack intellectual honesty.


It's as Metsfanmax said, the question isn't easy at all.

[Juan_Bottom]

Hmm, really? I'm sure more aid than they know what to do with would flow into these areas if it wasn't for Hamas.

Because Hamas exists everyone has to starve to death? Or be denied access to water? Denying food, water, medicine, power, chlorine, ect, is ok?,.... and all this despite the fact that it is illegal via international law (*Geneva convention) to deny anything that innocent civilians need to survive. As an American you should be against these things.



*Article 54 (2) of "the protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions August 12, 1949, relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), June 8, 1977"

I.E. West Bank enclave....... Answer: NO

I'm still not sure what you are referring to.

You must have bit your lip when writing that.

I agree with him.



This is the kind of stuff that keeps pissing off Palestinians. It's the things that you don't think of, like invading and then claiming water rights, when there is little to go around.

Then there's this sort of thing:

Amnesty International concluded in its October 2000 report that: “The Israeli security services were almost invariably well-defended, located at a distance from demonstrators in good cover, in blockhouses, behind wire or well-protected by riot shields.” The pretext for the use of lethal force, Amnesty found, was simply a fabrication. “Certainly, stones—or even petrol bombs—cannot be said to have endangered the lives of Israeli security services in any of the instances examined by Amnesty International.” One Israeli sniper privately revealed that soldiers are permitted to shoot at Palestinians who pose a potential threat, as long as they appear to be over the age of 12. “Twelve and up is allowed,” he confessed. A senior IDF officer also admitted: “Nobody can convince me we didn’t needlessly kill dozens of children.”

This answer more than any other makes everyone painfully aware that you lack intellectual honesty.

I agree with him.

[heavycola]

it's not black and white at all -far from it. I don;t think anyone is suggesting that palestinians = good / israel = bad, or vice versa. But it's easier to label hamas terrorists because, well... compare them to the IDF, in terms of internation military support, funds, training...

Both sides have been guilty of targeting civilians, and of behaving pretty terribly. But Hamas are the terrorists because
1) the US says so
2) they are towelheads

That's basically the difference. If you were palestinian, you may well call them freedom fighters.

[Juan_Bottom]

2) they are towelheads

He's right you guys, they're not like us.

[Baron Von PWN]

All questions from Ksslemp

Would the "Palestinians" be happier without Hamas? Probably not, they would still want their homeland back. So some other militant/terrorist organization would emerge.
Would there be enclaves like today? Maybe not maybe yes. Fatah is tiered corrupt party, there would inevitably be a more extreme party that would arise as a result.
Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family? probably not. Hamas doesn't control the west bank, that is under the control of Fatah.
and do those that live there now even care about that? Obviously, everyone cares about making your place better for raising a family. They might believe it would be a better place to raise a family if not under the control of a foreign occupier.

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist? So long as there's a unbalanced relationship in Palestine with the natives being pushed out by the Isrealies. There will be a some kind of violent reaction so a different organization would arise. This is where Hamas came from after all, they gained prominence as Fatah moderated.
Would there be blockades without Hamas? Maybe maybe not, depends how militant palestinian demands would be at the time.

[comic boy]

Another ‘Moderate’ GZ Mosque Supporter Can’t Bring Himself to Call Hamas a Terrorist Organization - National Review Online

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Was the IRA a terrorist organisation ?

[tzor]

Was the IRA a terrorist organisation ?

That's a good question.

Yes

It should be pointed out that this was a rare case of symetric terrorist warfare.

Was the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force) a terrorist organization?

The UVF's declared goal was to destroy Irish republican paramilitary groups. However, the vast majority (more than two-thirds) of its 481 known victims were Catholic civilians. During the conflict, its deadliest attack in Northern Ireland was the "McGurk's Bar bombing", which killed 15 civilians. The group also carried out a handful of attacks in the Republic of Ireland, the most deadly of which was the "Dublin and Monaghan bombings" — this killed 33 civilians, the highest number of deaths in a single day during the conflict.

[DangerBoy]

the US says so

Yup, the US government just woke up one day and decided to call them a terrorist organization just for kicks and giggles.

[b.k. barunt]

I don't think it's a very simple question. After all, the argument given is totally incorrect - the US overthrew Saddam's regime violently, but the US didn't label itself a terrorist organization. Terrorism is the deliberate creation of fear in an enemy population to coerce them to do something. That's not the same as the violent destruction of Israel. That makes them warlike and destructive, it doesn't necessarily make them terrorists.

Sorry dude, but that's gotta be one of the most ignorant attempts at dancing around the truth that i've heard yet. You just compared out and out warfare to terrorism, then compare Hamas' methods to that of the US military. Like i said, ignorant.


Honibaz

[MeDeFe]

I don't think it's a very simple question. After all, the argument given is totally incorrect - the US overthrew Saddam's regime violently, but the US didn't label itself a terrorist organization. Terrorism is the deliberate creation of fear in an enemy population to coerce them to do something. That's not the same as the violent destruction of Israel. That makes them warlike and destructive, it doesn't necessarily make them terrorists.

Sorry dude, but that's gotta be one of the most ignorant attempts at dancing around the truth that i've heard yet. You just compared out and out warfare to terrorism, then compare Hamas' methods to that of the US military. Like i said, ignorant.


Honibaz

If Hamas had the military capabilities of the USA I think they'd be engaging in out and out warfare, too. Are you implying military capabilities indicate whether a group is terroristic or not?

[Snorri1234]

Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? Yes