ljex wrote:
Seeing as this issue is with me I figure i should probably tell you my side of the story. (by paragraph)
1) I pm'd my friend from college saying to check out that thread because "you got owned" in that argument. Funny thing is I actually agreed with your side of the argument, you just didn't make good points and thus my comment about you getting owned. In retrospect I should have just said check out this thread and provided a link. Also i had nothing to do with that ban, at that time I was simply a volunteer so I could not give bans. Your ban was handled by one of the Global mods at that time. Lastly what does me saying you got owned in an argument have to do with moderator action? Last i checked losing an argument was not grounds for moderator action such as bans but hey what do i know.
2) I read that entire thread, in fact I even posted in it once. Also you were already informed about why it was a week old, as i am new to the global mod team clapper011 is training me. Because of that we had to take time discuss going back and forth what we thought about the issue. Also on the topic of why that was baiting, i already answered that in the pm conversation.
3) I don't receive any joy from "taking you down" don't know where that is even coming from as it is a bit unwarranted and unfounded with any evidence.
4) see # two.
5) What do you want me to respond with? You basically said i want this guy out, how can i respond to that in a way that will make you happy if i am not willing to resign from my position? Now assuming that is a no, which i did, why should i even bother to respond if nothing good can come from me responding?
6) As stated previously, I didn't ban you. In fact i had nothing to do with that ban. Also when did i take joy in holding another ban in your head? In fact I was hesitant to add your next level ban to the end of my warning issued to you and asked clapper011 if i should. Her response was that it was ultimately my choice but most of the time it was included, so i decided to go with the norm. Not sure i even need to say this, but i am not getting "my jollies by being unfair."
1a. You were part of a mod team (even if not in the global mod capacity) and you pm'd your friend bragging that I got "owned" and when I got back from my ban, I got a pm from him trashing me on how I got owned and using a mod's summation that I got "owned" as backing for his trash talking (and cussing me out out of the blue - btw I had never even had any pm and little to no forum contact with this member before that). That's inexcusable and it was definitely just an example that we know about of how a mod gloried in a ban. You really threw away your credibility and objectivity with that behavior and you threw away the trust inherent in the position. There is no way that you should act like that and still be a mod. Your action was not any better than the things you are banning us for or threatening to ban us for and it's hypocritical of you to stay in the mod position.
1b. Regarding 'lastly' - My losing an argument is your interpretation of event at best. I certainly had plenty of people pm me and with a much different opinion of of it. But you are saying that your opinion of the argument was not connected with my ban. That may well be, but it was still trash talking about a very sensitive issue and it should have no place in the aftermath of a ban. Also, when that happens, there's a perception that the mod does not like the poster and that it influenced his modding. Granted I know you claim that you did not make the ban decision, but that does not place you outside of the sphere of influence.
1c. I don't know what it means that you were a volunteer at that point btw. Like aren't all mods volunteers? Do global mods get a perk of premium or something and somehow it's not volunteer anymore?
2a. Yes I was informed that the complaint was recent and that you had not noticed that the thread was a week old and that you had not even noticed that it was not even an active thread anymore. And to be honest, I don't want to say that looking at something "old" should be off limits for mods, but if you're going to dig something up, it should be clear baiting/trolling/flaming and not merely some subjective judgment on your part. Had I told a member to 'f off' or made a clear violation of the rules then I think the 'old' issue would be a strawman. But as it is, given my historical view of you, this just appeared to be baiting/trolling/flaming by you.
2b. You know what. No, my post was not baiting. To let everyone know, we are talking about the No political DMPs thread. You had a thread in which a lot of posters were pouring it on against me and borderline harassing me and I used a metaphor, posting a picture of a pig train. I said I wasn't going to jump on the swine express and be harassed into not posting non-political DMPs. It was a metaphor and it matched the saltiness of the conversation that had already taken place. If a mod had a problem with the conversation then they could have stepped in at any point. But I was not harassing anyone or making it personal. To come back at me a week later and warn me about a week ban for posts like that is weak. To have even done it at the time would have been weak.
(And given your history of contempt for me), it was rather weak that you would allow other posters to act that way and then come and issue the week ban warning against me. It was totally uncalled for.
2c. Your pm stated that I was engaging in "common trolling and "Common Trolling, is essentially an intentional attempt to bait other users, cause chaos, disorder, or general unrest, and is less lighthearted and neutral than Spamming and Off Topicing." --The thread directly involved my posts! The thread baited me if anything! The posters weren't exactly being overly respectful towards me. This is BS. If you're going to allow a thread to target my posts and then come back at me and call me out for "common trolling" then that is a freaking joke. A FREAKING JOKE.
2d. Also, you claim that you read the thread but you have already admitted that you did not even notice that the thread was a week old. Also you advised me that I should have said, ""Feel free to create a non political DMP thread but I'm going to keep posting political ones in that thread." - I did that and this is only one more example that shows that you did not read and/or comprehend the thread.
3. You did talk down to me. You never asked for my side of an issue and I already had a perception of you waiting in the wings waiting to pounce and that warning out of the blue like that came as no surprise to me. If a mod who has no history of dealing with a member (except for the fact that he has talked trash behind the member's back) issues a one week ban warning about common trolling when this is not the case and the issue is dead then I don't know what you think "talking down" to the members is. That is not how a mod respectfully deals with someone.
Aside from that, I'll say that maybe it was hyperbole to say you take joy from taking me down. I don't really know if that is the case or not. But I know clearly that you have dealt contemptuously with me and that you are not qualified to be a mod and that you are only damaging the already bad credibility of the mods by staying in your position.
4. ---
5. I made the case that you talked trash during the case of my ban and that you should not be in your position. Basically I wanted you, admin, or global to respond to that serious issue and none of you elected to respond to the pm. When none of you responded, the message was sent that hey you got caught but you're not accountable. You have at least taken some accountability now by responding in this thread but even that looks like you are responding only b/c the issue is now public.
You had your chance to respond to serious accusations in private and you did not respond and acted like you were above such things and that only shows your contempt for me further. I mean do you really think that I was requesting for your resignation as some sort of lighthearted measure or knee jerk reaction? I had already shown cause for this request and a response and not indifference was absolutely warranted.
6a. That's fine. You weren't part of the actual decision to ban me. It was a terrible decision though and the fact that I had to hear another mod talking trash after the fact still reflects very poorly on you as I said.
6b. You were "hesitant" to issue the ban warning and I already showed how you clearly did not understand the situation. I can see how you hastily came to your decision. I've already shown how you have acted in contempt against me and it is not surprising that an unfair judgment was made.
7. I'm adding a point here. I think the modding in general has been plenty suspect. I'm not blaming all of the problems with the modding against me on you. I'm not even saying that you are at the heart of all the bad modding against me. You just happen to be at the center of the recent issue and you happen to be a mod that got caught trashing a member to another during the course of a ban.
But hey you still got caught and you really threw your credibility out of the window. You should quit modding for the same reason I would not seek to become a mod. There would be people that would perceive I had a chip on my shoulder. And whether it's the case or not, you through your own actions have created that perception.
8. I'm adding a second point here. I already mentioned how ridiculous it is to call me out for "common trolling" when I'm responding metaphorically against a thread that is meant to trash me and my posts. Besides, the fact that mods should have just shut that thread down and/or just talked to members if they had an issue (and not issue a ban warning against me a week after the fact); there is quite simply inconsistencies in what you guys consider baiting/trolling/flaming.
At one point, I made a legitimate post with an opinion on a legitimate issue and a poster just posted this:
[url]viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126722#p2778244[/url] (Click link to see image - It says ''Nigga, You Just went full retard.'
I pm'd a mod not 1, not 2, but 3 times asking:
I would appreciate clarification as to:
1. Whether this is is flaming or baiting
2. Whether the image would be considered appropriate and non-offensive.
Eventually I got this response:
This was not deemed to be flaming or baiting.
The image is not offensive.
However, at the time, we considered this something that might escalate. Thus, we noted it. It seems to have not escalated.
OK - So I made several valid attempt to understand what exactly is acceptable behavior and what is deemed unacceptable behavior. A poster was allowed to post a picture with a racial and mentally challenged slur against me out of the blue and it was not against the rules. I make a metaphorical point with a picture (that is not offensive like that) against a slew of posts against me and I'm called out? THAT MAKES NO SENSE. Standards should be enforced equally.
And when standards are not enforced equally and a poster knows of a mods contempt against him, then clearly there is a case to be made that I was targeted here and it is unacceptable. The standards need to be enforced equally going forward and I believe that I have made a sufficient case for the mod in question to resign his post and let the healing begin. For you to stay in your post and keep your ban power over your head when I already know of your unethical actions would not be appropriate and it damages the community.
BTW - I didn't take 2 hours out of my life posting about this b/c I'm on some sort of witch hunt. This is reality. If you abuse your members and stay in power then you are showing that you don't care about them. You want to ban us and then when you get caught acting inappropriately you want to stay in your position? That makes no sense and if we are going to trust the mods then we need to see that you guys are also accountable. It's the honorable thing to step down at this point. You're only serving your ego to stay in power.
