The Worst President

[Aradhus]

Uh, ok...

Commiting to the allies in ww2 to defeat the nazis. It would have been better to do nothing?

Reagan lowering taxes. Better to do nothing?

Forget Reagan, anytime any president has ever lowered taxes, better to do nothing?

Significant actions to fight communism. Better to do nothing?


Creating the constitution, better to do nothing?

[Night Strike]

Uh, ok...

Commiting to the allies in ww2 to defeat the nazis. It would have been better to do nothing?

Reagan lowering taxes. Better to do nothing?

Forget Reagan, anytime any president has ever lowered taxes, better to do nothing?

Significant actions to fight communism. Better to do nothing?


Creating the constitution, better to do nothing?

You don't get it do you? All of those are the right things to do (specifically by pushing for freedoms), not the wrong things. It's only the wrong things where it would have been better if the government had done nothing.

[Aradhus]

I get it completely. You're a classic conservative hypocrite. You pretend you hate big government, but really you only hate it when it does things you don't want it to do.

I think with the examples I listed, a very good case can be made that government did the wrong thing.

[Night Strike]

I think with the examples I listed, a very good case can be made that government did the wrong thing.

You think fighting with the Allies (especially after we were attacked by the Axis powers), combating communism, and writing/ratifying the Constitution were all the wrong thing to do??? WOW! (I'll admit you can debate the tax cut polices, but I feel your position is wrong on those too.)

[Aradhus]

Not what I said. Nuance goes over your head, huh?

[Phatscotty]

I get it completely. You're a classic conservative hypocrite. You pretend you hate big government, but really you only hate it when it does things you don't want it to do.

I think with the examples I listed, a very good case can be made that government did the wrong thing.

no no, thats me! You said so yourself, over and over again, but wait......it kind of looks like all conservatives, to you, are hypocrites and expletives filled name calling.

I will let you go wrong with this before I tell you where you will go wrong with this

[Phatscotty]

Arad, why in the hell are you soooo friggin negative?

[Aradhus]

I try to be consistent with my beliefs. I'm tired of arguing with conservatives(or liberals) who constantly change their position to fit ay given argument.

[Aradhus]

I consider it positive to believe that government can work, it can be efficient, and it can improve society. I consider it negative to believe that government does more harm than good, it will always be this way, so lets strip it to its bare minimum.

[Phatscotty]

I consider it positive to believe that government can work, it can be efficient, and it can improve society. I consider it negative to believe that government does more harm than good, it will always be this way, so lets strip it to its bare minimum.

Of course it can. I merely argue that currently, in most things, it isn't even close, and even seems impossible, and America overwhelmingly agrees on this (the demand to stop gov't growth/overspending).

So what positions do you take when a gov't atually does do more harm than good?

[Night Strike]

Not what I said. Nuance goes over your head, huh?

That's exactly what you said.

[Phatscotty]

After Reading this...

When President Lyndon Johnson launched his "War on Poverty," the poverty rate was trending down. When he offered money and benefits to unmarried women, the rate started flat-lining. Women married the government, allowing men to abandon their moral and financial responsibilities.

Considering throwing LBJ up there.

[Aradhus]

Not what I said. Nuance goes over your head, huh?

That's exactly what you said.

You really are unable to comprehend a perspective outside of your tiny little noggin, huh?

See if you can wrap your silly little head around this simple concept. Communism is a bad idea, agreed?

Bad ideas fail.

What if, gasp, instead of fighting against it, wasting lots of money, lots of lives, lots of lots of lots, instead of doing that, we just.. left it alone.. to fail.

[Phatscotty]

Not what I said. Nuance goes over your head, huh?

That's exactly what you said.

You really are unable to comprehend a perspective outside of your tiny little noggin, huh?

Just like everyone, except for you

[john9blue]

Nightstrike: <blanket statement>

Aradhus: <example that shows blanket statement to be false>

john9blue: <example of when blanket statement might fit>



Protip: one example of when a generalization fits, does not make that generalization true, while it only takes a single case to the contrary in order to show it to be false.

he still hasn't given a case to the contrary btw.

[KINER]

nixon isnt on there?

[Aradhus]

Nightstrike: <blanket statement>

Aradhus: <example that shows blanket statement to be false>

john9blue: <example of when blanket statement might fit>



Protip: one example of when a generalization fits, does not make that generalization true, while it only takes a single case to the contrary in order to show it to be false.

he still hasn't given a case to the contrary btw.

Perspective. Who judges.
Stimulus - no great depression.

[Night Strike]

Nightstrike: <blanket statement>

Aradhus: <example that shows blanket statement to be false>

john9blue: <example of when blanket statement might fit>



Protip: one example of when a generalization fits, does not make that generalization true, while it only takes a single case to the contrary in order to show it to be false.

he still hasn't given a case to the contrary btw.

Perspective. Who judges.
Stimulus - no great depression.

Not passing stimulus would result in 9.5% unemployment while passing it would mean unemployment stayed under 8%. We passed stimulus and have had unemployment over 9.5% for how many months? Therefore doing stimulus was worse than doing nothing. and we got stuck with $800b of debt for it.

[Phatscotty]

Nightstrike: <blanket statement>

Aradhus: <example that shows blanket statement to be false>

john9blue: <example of when blanket statement might fit>



Protip: one example of when a generalization fits, does not make that generalization true, while it only takes a single case to the contrary in order to show it to be false.

he still hasn't given a case to the contrary btw.

Perspective. Who judges.
Stimulus - no great depression.

Not passing stimulus would result in 9.5% unemployment while passing it would mean unemployment stayed under 8%. We passed stimulus and have had unemployment over 9.5% for how many months? Therefore doing stimulus was worse than doing nothing. and we got stuck with $800b of debt for it.

the unemployment rate has been over 9.5% for 16 straight months, virtually Obama entire presidency. Obama has admitted since, a few times, that his projections were wrong.

See, Obama gets credit for anything that can't be proven. Things that can be proven (like this!) are dismissed.

[Iliad]

Nightstrike: <blanket statement>

Aradhus: <example that shows blanket statement to be false>

john9blue: <example of when blanket statement might fit>



Protip: one example of when a generalization fits, does not make that generalization true, while it only takes a single case to the contrary in order to show it to be false.

he still hasn't given a case to the contrary btw.

Perspective. Who judges.
Stimulus - no great depression.

Not passing stimulus would result in 9.5% unemployment while passing it would mean unemployment stayed under 8%. We passed stimulus and have had unemployment over 9.5% for how many months? Therefore doing stimulus was worse than doing nothing. and we got stuck with $800b of debt for it.

That is some of the weakest excuses for logic I have ever seen. Have you even thought that through? Do you honestly think that if the stimulus wasn't passed the unemployment would have been exactly the same, if not lower, because the original predictions were slightly too optimistic?

[Phatscotty]

I love the "you can't prove what might have happened". All we know is that his unemployment projections were way off. If that means you still take his prediction of another great depression, I would wonder how Obama so could be wrong about 1 part of it, but totally correct about the other part....

It was a scare tactic to pass a slush fund, pure and simple. The only depression we are going to see is the one that massive gov't debt is creating....

[Night Strike]

That is some of the weakest excuses for logic I have ever seen. Have you even thought that through? Do you honestly think that if the stimulus wasn't passed the unemployment would have been exactly the same, if not lower, because the original predictions were slightly too optimistic?

So I assume you think counting saved jobs is also a weak excuse for logic? (Since it's impossible to count saved jobs.)

[Phatscotty]

As I have said many times....not even 1% of the recessionary problems have been addressed.

Holding up "papering it over" as the solution is just atrocious.

[Aradhus]

I think the premise was is doing nothing always better than doing the wrong thing. Most economists agree that the stimulus saved and created jobs.

[Phatscotty]

I think the premise was is doing nothing always better than doing the wrong thing. Most economists agree that the stimulus saved and created jobs.

and horrendous amounts of debt, with interest.

hardly worth it. None of those jobs produce profits, or generates growth either. A sucker's deal.