Austro-Hungarian Empire [Quenched]

[Obrens]

english please!

Impossible to talk about the etymology of the name in English, cause the name doesn't come from Engliush, duh.

[mviola]

It was written without the umlaut just because it was more simple for me to write (with the italian keyboard layout) on a map draft.
The definitive version will have the umlaut.

I figured you knew because you're Italian

[theBastard]

nice map, I like idea with geographic look.

could you remove one bridge from Poszega (there are two) and add one between Tolna and Pest (which could also represent the unification - connection of both old towns Buda, Pest)?

[thenobodies80]

RL has become hectic, it forces me to put this project on vacation again, at least for a month or two.

[natty dread]

awww

[thenobodies80]

Working on this one again, new graphic, new gameplay.....i'll update the thread later, for now just a preview without the details. Need to sleep now!

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Nice!

[Teflon Kris]

Very Nice

[iancanton]

[moved] to the gameplay workshop. happy new year, nobodies!

ian.

[The Bison King]

well this is exciting!

[Industrial Helix]

Wow that is a beautiful update. Something about the mountains though... I think the shadows are too dark and nothing else on the map has that level of darkness. They could use some more integration with the land as well... like a smoother transition from land to mountains. And the river is too uniform to fit with the very natural look of this map... so vary it in width in some places I think.

As for gameplay, shouldn't Tolna be Buda as Pest is on the other side of the river?

I feel like Austria ought to be more defensible given that it was the dominant state in the Empire. I figure, with historical maps, the areas that were dominant ought to be the more logical bonus a player ought to go for... in this case, its more like a transilvanian or Galacian empire. What about dividing Austria into two smaller, easier to attain bonuses? Or just increasing the impassables or fudging the borders.

Given the above, maybe reduce Galacia by 1 so the bonus is 2.

Your legend ought to read mountains, forests, rivers and lakes.

The dynamics of the thrones should be interesting and positive. I think it will prevent a player from stacking in an easy bonus and scoring the win. Players, I think, will need to fight two fronts, one for quick and easy bonuses and the other for the thrones. Any idea what kind of neutrals they will be packing?

I think and Autodeploy of 1 ought to be sufficient as we don't want the stacks to get too high too quickly as to make the thrones impossible to secure.

Lastly, I think the title could use a c. 1914 or something to indicate the era. I mean, if it were 1900 then Bosnia wouldn't be playable or if it were before 1868 it would be just the Austrian Empire.

Anyway, it's look great. i can't wait to play this one!

[thenobodies80]

Click image to enlarge.

First of all: it's not Zagrab but Zagreb and it's misplaced. Real Zagreb is exactly on your border between Zagreb an Belovar. U can redraw the border more to the south and then u'll have Zagreb on the north and Karlovac on the south. Also, Belovar is Bjelovar if u want to keep this name of the territorry.
2. Poszega is ok but it will be more correct to call it Slavonia or Slavonien in German
3. Lika-Kravaba does not mean anything. Kravaba does not exist. U can call it only Lika. Krbava (u wrote Kravaba) is river in Lika
4. Dalmatien- it's ok if u want to have german names, but also u can call it Dalmatia

Zagreb should be in the right place now. Bjelovar was fixed.
Pozega borders were changed from the old version, is it good now?
Krbava removed.
Dalmatia fixed.

Wow that is a beautiful update. Something about the mountains though... I think the shadows are too dark and nothing else on the map has that level of darkness. They could use some more integration with the land as well... like a smoother transition from land to mountains. And the river is too uniform to fit with the very natural look of this map... so vary it in width in some places I think.

Mountains have now a lighter shadow. The river, i know it sucks. I'll take care of it asap. Also the lake

As for gameplay, shouldn't Tolna be Buda as Pest is on the other side of the river?

Buda is placed inside pest, what is labelled with tolna on the map are Fejer and Tolna merged together.
Some places or borders could be slightly changed for gameplay reasons, you know.

I feel like Austria ought to be more defensible given that it was the dominant state in the Empire. I figure, with historical maps, the areas that were dominant ought to be the more logical bonus a player ought to go for... in this case, its more like a transilvanian or Galacian empire. What about dividing Austria into two smaller, easier to attain bonuses? Or just increasing the impassables or fudging the borders.

Given the above, maybe reduce Galacia by 1 so the bonus is 2.

I've modified the borders, now kustenland border only with carniola, so austria has a total of 4 borders to defend.
Galicia is 3 because the distance from the austrian throne; you need to pass through 3 to reach the throne, on the opposite austria and hungary were lowered by 1 for the same reason.
I thought about to focus more on austria and hungary, i came up with a strange idea using adjusting reinforcements, but it was something too tricky...
Anyway if you have a good idea playing with bonuses / reinforcements, etc ...

Your legend ought to read mountains, forests, rivers and lakes.

Done

The dynamics of the thrones should be interesting and positive. I think it will prevent a player from stacking in an easy bonus and scoring the win. Players, I think, will need to fight two fronts, one for quick and easy bonuses and the other for the thrones. Any idea what kind of neutrals they will be packing?

I think and Autodeploy of 1 ought to be sufficient as we don't want the stacks to get too high too quickly as to make the thrones impossible to secure.

About neutrals i was thinking about 3 for Upper austria, moravia, tolna, bacs bodrog, bihar. The same for lower austria and pest? they give access to the thrones, maybe 4 instead of 3?
Thrones must have higher values, i think. 5/10?
Dual monarchy, i thought about it with a bigger value at the start (15?), then it resets to 2.

Lastly, I think the title could use a c. 1914 or something to indicate the era.

Added.

More thoughts about values are welcome!

[theBastard]

very nice Nobodies. I like this "natural" style from start...

some my notices:

the mountains need another colour. do them a little more brown/green/grey (the grey as you have now could be at the top of the highest hills.

+ to Helix´s notice - river and lake look as they are higher as land.

about names - there is question whit which versions you can go. becaue you use somewhere German names, somewhere Hungarian names, somewhere sllavs names. and maybe all regions could be names by regions - some regions have name by region, some by town. (just tell me if you can change it, I can help you with research )

here is Hungary map with regions

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

Slap me silly and pay the bartender 80 nobodies! Its back! Lookin pretty fine, sly guy!

[thenobodies80]

Some changes:

1. Istria replaced kustenland, borders were changed
2. Northern, Central and Southern Bohemia instead of Liberec, Plzen and Ceske Budejovice.
3. Cracow, Rzeszow, Lviv, Tarnopol replace Beskidy, Galicia Roztocze and Gotogori
4. Poszega instead of Pozega
5. Syrmia instead of Srijem
6. Some work on lake and rivers, i've added two new rivers (Tisza and Mures approximately) and changed some hungarian borders

Click image to enlarge.

Thoughts about bonus values, starting neutrals? Anything gameplay related?

[The Bison King]

Looking great I love it!

Gameplay suggestion: what about a larger bonus for holding all (or a large percent) of either Austria or Hungary?

[theBastard]

looks great now.
I do not exactly understand - "Borders with the territory with the same symbol"...

Gameplay suggestion: what about a larger bonus for holding all (or a large percent) of either Austria or Hungary?

maybe reduce other bonuses (Bohemia, Transylvania +1, Galicia/Londomeria +2, Croatia/Slavonia, Bosnia&Hercegovina +3, Austria, Hungary +5) and do larger bonuses for all (Cisleithanian + 4, Transleithanian +4)?

why is Transleithanian bonus twice larger as Cisleithanian bonus? I thin to secure all Austria is not easier as secure all Hungary...

[Victor Sullivan]

My comp is showing question marks instead of your images now, nobodies. Is it just me?

[theBastard]

My comp is showing question marks instead of your images now, nobodies. Is it just me?

I can see update in the first post and also in this page...
check your comp

[Victor Sullivan]

Lol, now its working.

[Victor Sullivan]

Thoughts about bonus values, starting neutrals? Anything gameplay related?

Some comments (now that I can see the pic, lol):

1. The objective and throne mechanics are very, very nice.
2. Because of the importance of the thrones, Id argue that the Hungary and Austria bonuses could be bumped up higher. I say Austria should be +7 and Hungary +8
3. Specify your impassables, specifically the forests, as they are used simply for decoration in some areas.
4. Why are the Cisleith and Transleith bonuses so different? I would think they should both be the same.

Thats all I got for now Good work so far!

Sully

[thenobodies80]

Click image to enlarge.

Another update.
I'll read the comments tomorrow in the morning.

[MarshalNey]

I like the map and the gameplay concept, but then I'm a sucker for historical maps.

As for the Thrones, several things strike me:
(1) The bonus is trivial enough (+3 at most, with 1 of that being autodeploy) that the neutrals aren't worth the effort of breaking unless a player is going for the victory objective. While +3 for 1 region seems like a good return, this is deceiving as one really needs to hold 6 regions or more to get the +2 bonus- and unless the Transleithanian/Cisleithanian bonus is Austria or Hungary, one will need to devote significant protection to keep it in the midst of enemy territory. Attacking neutral regions in open deployment games is always a big gamble that should be worth the effort- just think what killing 7 enemy armies could do, instead of killing 7 neutral armies does, and then consider that a player also has to hold what he takes- and so in this case I think that the resource cost is too high for the modest benefit.

Thus I think that the Throne bonus will only be sought in the late game, and only on certain game settings. This bothers me a bit because I think the Thrones should be a central feature of the gameplay from the start, especially with all of the legend space devoted to it.

I would suggest either lowering the neutrals on the Thrones- which will work, even from a victory objective standpoint as there are other neutrals regions to hack through first- or to increase the bonus, or both. As for the latter, one thing that might work is more of a build-a-bonus structure such as:
Austrian Throne + every 2 Cisleithanian terts = +1
Hungarian Throne + every 2 Transleithanian terts = +1
This sort of idea, of a throne consolidating power from the diverse elements of a whole area, seems very much in keeping with the patchwork nature of Austro-Hungarian authority. It would make the Thrones a mid- to late-game powerhouse and yet wouldn't diminish the importance of the 'continent' bonuses.

(2) The Dual Monarchy is a good idea but at 15 neutral isn't worth attacking, especially since the Throne itself isn't a bonus worth breaking with a mere bombardment. Why break a +3 bonus which can be easily retaken by an opponent- assuming the likely case that said opponent holds the connecting land region- through a 15-neutral stack that resets to 2, when one could probably just as easily break a regional bonus, killing enemy armies instead and getting the same effect or greater?

There are several ways to fix this. First, you could make the Thrones more worthwhile to attack/bombard as stated before. Second, you could make the Dual Monarchy an attack route to each Throne rather than bombardment, which would make it a path to obtaining the Victory Objective. Third, you could reduce the neutrals. Any or all of these things would make the Dual Monarchy a viable gameplay element.

(3) Question: does the Austro-Hungarian Condominium count as part of neither Cisleithania or Transleithania? I'm assuming that is the answer, although it could possibly be both...

Anyway, glad to see this map progressing.

Marshal Ney

[thenobodies80]

I mostly agree with all you wrote, the only thing i don't like to change is to make the dual monarchy able to attack. I think it's better to have it as it is, in my mind it looks better. But I've noted this in the OP, if people will ask for the change, I'll take it into consideration.

About neutrals, do you think something like in this version is better?

Click image to enlarge.

Pest and Lower Austria changed to 3 neutrals
Both Thrones with 4 neutrals
Dual Monarchy with 6 neutrals

(3) Question: does the Austro-Hungarian Condominium count as part of neither Cisleithania or Transleithania? I'm assuming that is the answer, although it could possibly be both...

Yes, Bosnia & Herzegovina is a sort of neutral place, for historical consistence. I was going to write something like: "it isn't part of any bonus" but it would look strange being written next to a bonus...
So i used the minimaps, i think they explain what is part of Cisleithania or Transleithania.... No?

[Victor Sullivan]

I mostly agree with all you wrote, the only thing i don't like to change is to make the dual monarchy able to attack. I think it's better to have it as it is, in my mind it looks better. But I've noted this in the OP, if people will ask for the change, I'll take it into consideration.

I assume you are referring to the attack vs bombardment of the Dual Monarchy, yes? As far as that is concerned, I strongly agree with you, it should definitely be left as a bombardment and not an assault, the main reason being it promotes movement around the map more, as you would only be able to access the two objective points from the two, well, access points on the map. For that very reason, I still suggest a bonus increase for Austria and Hungary (+7 and +8, respectively).

Sully