[Abandoned] - CUBA

[Industrial Helix]

Isaiah - Can do. Though some of the cities start as a 1 to induce players to go for their regions and score a quick bonus.

ED - 19 land territories... that should even out the 7-8 player games. But it would give the M-26-7 players an advantage in 1-6 player games right? I think there was a trigger MarshalNey came up with to avoid this problem in Russian Revolution and that was to make it so one needed a commander AND the HQ (x boxes) to gain any sort of bonus. What if we did that here? Would that be an acceptable solution to the problem?

[isaiah40]

Isaiah - Can do. Though some of the cities start as a 1 to induce players to go for their regions and score a quick bonus.

ED - 19 land territories... that should even out the 7-8 player games. But it would give the M-26-7 players an advantage in 1-6 player games right? I think there was a trigger MarshalNey came up with to avoid this problem in Russian Revolution and that was to make it so one needed a commander AND the HQ (x boxes) to gain any sort of bonus. What if we did that here? Would that be an acceptable solution to the problem?

Well, in reality, an army is kind of lost without a commander right? So that should work pretty well here.

[Industrial Helix]

You know, given the size of the map, I think I would be alright with the map being a conquer style map.

Remove the class support and use the Commanders as the starting positions. Hell... I might even be able to pull the commander chart and really free up the map... thoughts?

[Teflon Kris]

You know, given the size of the map, I think I would be alright with the map being a conquer style map.

Remove the class support and use the Commanders as the starting positions. Hell... I might even be able to pull the commander chart and really free up the map... thoughts?

Ouch - I was loving the gameplay with Commanders and Support - there's only one other map with gameplay anything like that on here.

If you do go down the standard map-style route then I'd say its worth keeping at least Castro and Guevarro.

[Victor Sullivan]

You know, given the size of the map, I think I would be alright with the map being a conquer style map.

Remove the class support and use the Commanders as the starting positions. Hell... I might even be able to pull the commander chart and really free up the map... thoughts?

Its worth investigating, at least. I am certainly not ready to drop your fabulous idea, but your idea seems like justification for exploring a draft, if you are okay with the possibility of it being unpopular.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, here's what I'm thinking... this should be balanced and still preserve the historical aspect of the war. From what I understand, the XML will also allow me to make it so that in two player games, one will be all 4 M-27-7 commanders and the player 2 will be all the Rep. de Cuba Commanders... adding to the war like situation.

Click image to enlarge.

[Teflon Kris]

From what I understand, the XML will also allow me to make it so that in two player games, one will be all 4 M-27-7 commanders and the player 2 will be all the Rep. de Cuba Commanders... adding to the war like situation.

Sort of not.

We really need another xml feature on this - team starting positions (not sure if I ever suggested this in the right place).

It could actually be done for 1 v 1 I think, but it would mess all other game formats up:

You code a set of 4 commanders together as one starting position, same for the other set. Then you have 2 starting positions - perfect for 1 v 1. Unfortunately, as soon as you get to 3+ players, there would not be enough starting positions to share out so they would be neutral (I think).

[Industrial Helix]

Well, that kind of XML update would revolutionize CC. But from what I understand, Lack isn't digging the idea. But... you can do some interesting things with the current XML. Take this latest update as an example. I can make my m-26-7 commanders have a nearby territory also fall to them at the start of the game. Similar to how the XML works on Middle Ages. Or at least I think I can do this. I'm wondering if it will work if the Rep. de Cuba commanders don't have a second territory.

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

I'm wondering if it will work if the Rep. de Cuba commanders don't have a second territory.

you have 15 territories as starting points now (except commanders). how can you sort them?
if player with M 26-7 commander will start at commander and one more territory, after 1st turn (if he will assault "commanders assault" territory) will has 4 to deploy.

player with Rep. commander will start only with commander, yes? but after 1st turn (if he will assault "commaqnders assault" town) will has 4 deploy +1 autodeploy.

I think that one more territory could helps - there will be 16 what is good for this set up:

8 players game:
player with M 26-7 commander will start with 2 territories and town (without Rep. commander). it gives him from start +1 autodeploy and 4 manualdeploy (3 standard and 1 for 2 territories with M 26-7 commander)

player with Rep. commander will start with 1 territory and "commanders town". it gives him +1 autodeploy and 4 manualdeploy (3 standard and 1 for Rep. commander and town)

[Industrial Helix]

Crap, i uploaded the wrong file.

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

Crap, i uploaded the wrong file.

lol

will be standard 3 here? will commanders start with 8 units as is shown?

[Industrial Helix]

Everything in the latest version is what I intend. The island runs all neutrals and the commanders start at 8.... m-26-7 commanders also have an extra region that is adjacent to their army region, making it so that they must only conquer 1 territory to gain a bonus, just like the Rep. de Cuba commanders.

[theBastard]

Everything in the latest version is what I intend. The island runs all neutrals and the commanders start at 8.... m-26-7 commanders also have an extra region that is adjacent to their army region, making it so that they must only conquer 1 territory to gain a bonus, just like the Rep. de Cuba commanders.

but this is unbalanced.

player with M 26-7 commander has 8 at commander and 3 standard to deploy. so in the first turn he can assault "commander" region from commander and deploy 3 to his region and assault one more region. so in the second turn he will has 2 regions but only 4 to deploy (3 standard, +1 for two regions with M 26-7 commander).

player with Rep. commander has 8 at the commander. he can deploy his 3 only here and assault "commander" town. maybe one more region. but in the second turn he will have +1 autodeploy (at town) and 4 to deploy (3 standard, +1 for town and Rep. commander).

or look at position of Fidel Castro and Raul Castro. F. Castro could deploy 3 to commander and with this 11 in the firts turn assault Escambay and Cienfuegos. so he will has at the second turn 1 autodeploy (town) and 4 manualdeploy (3 standard, +1 for two regions).
R. Castro could assault could deploy 3 to caommander and with this 11 assault Santiago the Cuba and Santiago. but he will be staight off assault by player with Rep. commander Lee.
or where will assault player with Che? he holds the same region from start where he can only assault from commander.

these are only examples, there is much more combinations, but I think players with M 26-7 commander have advantage.

[Industrial Helix]

Hmm... yes. Good point.

I wonder if maybe adding a sort of "friendly town" icon could help. This would give a +2 with a m-26-7 commander... essentially it would be like a city.

[theBastard]

at the first sorry Helix, I´ve bad read legend and I did not saw that "commander´s" regions are autodeploy. but this not change on my opinion that startting positions are not balanced.

but what about to:

each Rep commander player will start with 8 at Rep commander and 1 at region around "commander´s" town. so he can deploy 3 to region and wiht 4 assault another region. with 8 from commander can assault "commander´s" town. than only reinforce region around town or concuered region. when he deploy 3 to commander he with 11 could assault only "commander´s" town. and only reinforce region around town.
so at the 2nd turn he will have +1 autodeploy and 4 manualdeploy (3 standard, +1 Rep commnader with town).

do "M 26-7 commander´s regions" non autodeploys.
and each M 26-7 commander player will start with M 26-7 commander and region around non "commander´s" town. so he can deploy 3 to region and with 4 assault non "commander´s" town and from commander with 8 assault "commander´s" region.
so at the 2nd turn he will have +1 autodeploy and 4 manualdeploy (3 standard, +1 for two regions with commander.
yes, he can also deploy all to M 26-7 commander and assault more regions and no town, but this is his choice.

so each player will start with 1 region and commander.

only what will be necessary is set up of starting numbers.

EDIT: if I good understand from "commander´s" town/region is possible assauôt commander...
than I´m afraid that in so small map can be any players kicked off at the second turn.

[Industrial Helix]

OK... let's just make it a straight up conquer map. Given this, are the bonuses fair?

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

sorry, but I think they are not fair.
when Rep. Commander assault "his" town he will gain +1 autodeploy and +1 manualdeploy for town with Rep. Commander.
when M 26 7 Commander assault "his" region he will gain +1 autodeploy only.

and now it looks as Conquer map - deploying, deploying and deploying...

what about:
add to Rep. Commander "his" town with "1" and town´s region with "1". so from start he will gain +1 autodeploy and +1 manualdeploy.
add to M 26 7 Commander "his" region with "1" and one more region (without town and not bordering with "Commanders´s autodeploy" region) with "1". so he from start will gain +1 autodeploy and +1 manualdeploy.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, what about +1 for every two cities and a Rep. commander?

[Victor Sullivan]

No, no... You had it right the first time - +1 per city with a Rep. de Cuba commander and +1 per 2 territories with a M-26-7 commander. I'll cite my reasons if you want, but I haven't got the time now, I'm afraid.

-Sully

[theBastard]

agree with Sully. when you will do +1 for two towns with Rep. Comm. there will be just 4 bonuses, while M 26 7 Comm. will have 9 bonuses for +1 for 2 regions.

so +1 for each town with Rep. Comm.

one question: you can have start set up that each player will start ony with Commander?

[Industrial Helix]

Well, wait... If its +1 for each two territories and a M. commander and +1 for every city, then doesn't the Rep. Commander have to attack only one place to get a bonus of +1 and the M commander attack two territories to get +1? Not to mention, the cities already carry an autodeploy of +1. That arrangement strikes me as very favorable to the Rep commanders.

[theBastard]

Well, wait... If its +1 for each two territories and a M. commander and +1 for every city, then doesn't the Rep. Commander have to attack only one place to get a bonus of +1 and the M commander attack two territories to get +1? Not to mention, the cities already carry an autodeploy of +1. That arrangement strikes me as very favorable to the Rep commanders.

but town gives autodeploy +1 to both Comms. when you do +1 for two towns with Rep. Comm. there will be only 4 bonuses. for two regions with M 26 7 Comm. there are 9 bonuses.

[Industrial Helix]

But if I introduce the towns into the system, then M commanders have the town +1 as well as the +1 for two territories and the Rep commanders have +1 for the city and no bonus other than the +1 for 3 territories.

I could ditch the +1 for two territories, but then it just becomes each player grabbing the nearest town/city and its nothing like the war.

My dilemma: I want cities and territories to yield a bonus no matter who holds them. But I want M-26-7 commanders to be more biased towards getting a bonus in the territories and the Rep. Commanders to be biased towards going for the cities.

One possible solution would be +1 for two cities and a Rep commander, no bonus for every three territories, and +1 for every three territories (even under 12 total territories) for M-26-7 commanders. The problem is that it makes cities and territories worth nothing if you have the wrong commander... which wasn't the case.... but then again, if an M-26-7 commander takes over a Rep. Commander (meaning he defeats the leader of a group) he usurps the powers of the leader he deposed and thus gains the advantages. Perhaps it works out like I want it to. Thoughts?

[theBastard]

understand you. what about: +1 for M 26 7 Commander with two regions, +1 for Rep. Commander with town and town´s region. the map is small, so only each second region will have no importance for Rep. Commander.?

[MrBenn]

I know it's only a rough draft, but you should begin to worry when the legend is twice the size of the playable map area