The Murder Of Albarezzi- End Game- Mafia Wins!

[edocsil]

Sully - town deputy
Edoc - town deputy's son

Vio I do not believe I or he have claimed this.

[safariguy5]

I am SO freaking confused right now... Hahahaha

How about this? You guys all get to vote who I vig in the night, as well. I will vig that person.

My love will either vig a second player or protect me, so get your votes out for that one.

Now, let's hammer someone and see who is right and who is LYING!?!?! This back and forth will never end.

WTH!!!! OMG, I seriously want to lynch anark and his lover as well. Last thing we need are two reckless town vigs. You just don't go killing unknown people.
Just because you both have the ability to kill someone tonight, doesn't mean you should.
Also, you still want a quick hammer.

Saf, I don't like bus drivers. Not one bit. They botch up results for the town. Also, bus driver is just as common on the mafia side, as it is on the town side.

Unless someone counter claims, why should we kill our doc? He may be acting out and playing a bit idiotic, but we didn't kill herk in Briarsburg. Why would you suggest this?

Herk was only in two games, which ended two months ago, yet he still gets talked about so much


It took me 30 minutes to read pancake's post. That was quite fast. Amazing contribution, and I think that case against saf is pretty solid.

However, from my perspective, the mafia framer role seems to be very common this game. I've seen it in a handful of games- though I'm not exactly sure how it works.

Since we've had several claims so far, I'd like to do an outline of all the players and possible alignments.

Town
Nark - town vig
Sully - town deputy
Yoshi - town doctor
Edoc - town deputy's son
Vi - town

Survivor
spiesr - end of the world

Unkown
Commander
pancake
safari
/
drabod

Provided that everyone is telling the truth, at least two of those in the unknown category must be mafia.

I was almost going to vote safari, as I was persuaded by pancake's argument.

But for some reason- / seems the scummiest of all players so far. I cant' say why, nor make a case against him yet. But just an inner feeling I have.

Not necessarily. Busdrivers can be used to switch power roles with someone else. It could easily be used as a form of protection. And with the number of town roles being claimed, I doubt us being able to protect everyone. As for mafia vs town, I understand you being leery of busdriver due to Tarantino, but it's much more often to be a town role per BTTF, and just about every Fircoal modded game.

Still, like I said, I'm willing to lay down my life for the town if it outs some scum as I'm still pretty convinced either Nark or Yoshi is lying. I'm also not at all convinced of 3 factions. At least killing me isn't going to impact town as severely as killing a cop, vig, or doc.

[edocsil]

Yeah, I think even if we don't hang you you shouldn't use your action ans we seem to have trigger happy vigs running around. Would be bad.

[Commander9]

Yeah, I think even if we don't hang you you shouldn't use your action ans we seem to have trigger happy vigs running around. Would be bad.

Remember Karel in Briarsburg 1/8 record, I think.

I still think that someone is lying... something just doesn't feel right.

[DoomYoshi]

I don't understand why you would role claim saf. With 2 votes, it doesn't seem like it is advantageous. Why not let the case build and/or defend it normally? The only ppl who can gain from all these role claims are the mafia.

Vi, you earlier said you were going to present a case on everyone. Can I have my case now so we can get it over with:D?

[safariguy5]

I don't understand why you would role claim saf. With 2 votes, it doesn't seem like it is advantageous. Why not let the case build and/or defend it normally? The only ppl who can gain from all these role claims are the mafia.

Vi, you earlier said you were going to present a case on everyone. Can I have my case now so we can get it over with:D?

What's the mafia going to do? target a busdriver when (if we are going to believe these claims) there's a vig, JOAT, doc, and cop out there? Trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm low on the priority list. And if they do kill me, 1 extra night for a guilty investigation. If we need a lynch today, then I gladly take 1 for the team in the hopes of the fakeclaims that could be out there identified quickly and no more townies exposed.

[pancakemix]

I have modded games where I use Mafia Framer (See Tarantino). Therefore, using "frame" makes it seem like Yoshi was talking about framing as the role to me.

"I've used framer before, therefore he must have meant framer"? That really doesn't make sense, and still doesn't explain why you didn't say "Why do you think there's a framer?" or something to that effect. Plus, if you had actually read what he was saying, you would see that wouldn't make sense and that there was no WIFOM. So you either skimmed or were just looking for a reason to attack him, which is scummy any way you look at it. The framer thing just adds to it.

Also PCM, I was the one who initiated the case on Yoshi and also the one who voted him first. You can't bandwagon on someone if you're the first person to vote him. FOS PCM.

Nice OMGUS. And yeah, I noticed you started the wagon. You were very adamant about it. Through two bandwagons you wanted to lynch him and you got your chance when there wasn't a case on the table.

And how exactly are we suddenly so sure that it could be a three faction game? We're basing our assumption on NK's and protection roles based on the mod's background? While it's plausible, I'm sticking by my guns here and saying that we shouldn't speculate about what factions there may or may not be based on such evidence. 1 night should shake out how many killing roles there are.

All I was saying was that it was a logical conclusion based on the evidence. Nothing more.

And so basically PCM is saying that the strongest piece of evidence on me is what he reads as a Freudian Slip about how the mafia have a framer. As I indicated in the first lines, I usually read "frame" as the role, so call it a misinterpretation of diction. I don't know whether the mafia has a framer, and we probably wouldn't find out.

Isn't a Freudian slip supposed to be what you're actually thinking? Which would mean that it's true? (I could be wrong on that, but that's what I thought at least). And that's not the reason you gave before. "I've used it before" and "I usually read it that way" don't belong. And it still doesn't explain why you didn't question him and why you didn't read it properly in context. You really can't justify this.

However, as we apparently seem to have outed half of the town power roles, I feel that any more unnecessary wagons on more people may lead to collateral damage. Assuming that everyone before me is telling the truth, then I'm probably the least valuable person to have come under fire so far. So in the interests of the town, I'll claim now, and if everyone wants to lynch me, I rest assured that the people with the power roles will have some likely targets in the night and the protective roles will know who to protect and we should find out who's lying relatively soon.

I am Sergio Russo, Town Busdriver.

Not even a defense and you're claiming? I don't buy it. You brought it out way too fast for it to be real. Anyone think about the possibility of mafia being given fake claims?

What's the mafia going to do? target a busdriver when (if we are going to believe these claims) there's a vig, JOAT, doc, and cop out there? Trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm low on the priority list. And if they do kill me, 1 extra night for a guilty investigation. If we need a lynch today, then I gladly take 1 for the team in the hopes of the fakeclaims that could be out there identified quickly and no more townies exposed.

Wait, now you believe Yoshi's claim? You seemed to doubt it before. Show me where Vic claimed cop, I must have missed that while I combed the whole thread. And why the hell do you believe Nark? You take these claims for granted; is it because you know they're true (or they're your scum partner and you need to help their fake claim)? Not to mention you're just clearing a path for yourself to live long and prosper.

I don't like it. As it is, my vote stands. If saf turns up scum, Nark is next.

[DoomYoshi]

Greetings, fellow townies.
Sax has indulged me.

As a strange doctor, I walk to the middle of town, and say "I am not really Dr. Pepper(oni) like you have been assuming. In fact I am Zanebone di Vincente, incognito." I rip off my mask. Which means I am no longer incognito.

[edocsil]

Greetings, fellow townies.
Sax has indulged me.

As a strange doctor, I walk to the middle of town, and say "I am not really Dr. Pepper(oni) like you have been assuming. In fact I am Zanebone di Vincente, incognito." I rip off my mask. Which means I am no longer incognito.

Uh oh. Doc sanity check, this could actually be a big deal.

[spiesr]

Greetings, fellow townies.
Sax has indulged me.
As a strange doctor, I walk to the middle of town, and say "I am not really Dr. Pepper(oni) like you have been assuming. In fact I am Zanebone di Vincente, incognito." I rip off my mask. Which means I am no longer incognito.

Uh oh. Doc sanity check, this could actually be a big deal.

Indeed. DoomYoshi, how much of that statement you just made was in some way derived from your role pms and how much of it did you just make up? If it actually came from your role then it raises the possibility of you not being a normal (sane) doctor. (Which interesting if that were to be the case then there could be more then 1 doctor.

Anyone think about the possibility of mafia being given fake claims?

Actually giving the mafia fake claims in a game like this seems unnecessary. The setting is such that you just have to make up an Italian sounding name that isn't Albarezzi or Mallini. Fake claiming is basically as easy as in an unthemed game, so I don't see how the mafia would need to have the mod give them fake claims. Accordingly this means that just becuase someone comes up with a claim doesn't mean we should believe them.

WTH!!!! OMG, I seriously want to lynch anark and his lover as well. Last thing we need are two reckless town vigs. You just don't go killing unknown people.
Just because you both have the ability to kill someone tonight, doesn't mean you should.

Interestingly enough, if by some freak chance that everyone who has claimed or semi-claimed so far is actually telling the truth, then the list of people left isn't that long. If AD were to take his lover of that list and then choose a target at random they would have at least even odds of hitting scum. Of course this scenario is meaningless since I seriously doubt that everyone has told the truth so far, we just need to sort out who is lying...

[DoomYoshi]

Everyone in town knows me as Zanebone di Vincente. However, after the murders I changed my name and appearance. If getting a disguise with up to two murderers running around is insane, i don't want to know how you define sane.

[safariguy5]

Like I said PCM, it's fine if you guys wanna lynch me. However, who would you target instead of Nark when I flip town? If getting the day over with without forcing anyone else to claim requires killing me, then I'm totally fine with that. That's at least 4 other people who have to back up their claims with definitive actions. I'm pretty sure we'll get at least 1-2 scum in that group regardless. Trading 1 busdriver for 1-2 scum is an acceptable loss to me.

[edocsil]

Everyone in town knows me as Zanebone di Vincente. However, after the murders I changed my name and appearance. If getting a disguise with up to two murderers running around is insane, i don't want to know how you define sane.

Humh. Doesn't sound like a vanilla doc. I am going to Vote Yoshi. First off there is a distinct chance the thing is mostly lies anyways. Second off he voted for himself after I commented how townish I thought spiesr was for being willing to take a possible bullet for the team. Thirdly insane docs tend to be jailors, accidental killers or a host of other pleasant things the worst of which would be a recruiter (highly unlikely)

[DoomYoshi]

Everyone in town knows me as Zanebone di Vincente. However, after the murders I changed my name and appearance. If getting a disguise with up to two murderers running around is insane, i don't want to know how you define sane.

Humh. Doesn't sound like a vanilla doc. I am going to Vote Yoshi. First off there is a distinct chance the thing is mostly lies anyways. Second off he voted for himself after I commented how townish I thought spiesr was for being willing to take a possible bullet for the team. Thirdly insane docs tend to be jailors, accidental killers or a host of other pleasant things the worst of which would be a recruiter (highly unlikely)

Ok, I take that back. I do want to know how you define sane, as your post has left me confused.

[edocsil]

Yeah, 2 different kinds of sanity. Yuor sanity you were talking about is regular real life insanity I am talking about this kind. (copied from the wiki)

There are five variations of the Doctor role, typically called sanities analogously to the Cop sanities.

* Insane Doctor: This doctor has 50% chance of killing his patient instead of protecting him.
* Paranoid Doctor : This doctor not only protects his patient but he also roleblocks him. See also, Jailkeeper.
* Naïve Doctor (a.k.a. Quack): This doctor's protection is ineffective.
* Weak Doctor: This doctor dies if he protects an anti-town player.
* CPR Doctor (also a Quack variant): This doctor kills his patient if he is not attacked.

[DoomYoshi]

Everyone in town knows me as Zanebone di Vincente. However, after the murders I changed my name and appearance. If getting a disguise with up to two murderers running around is insane, i don't want to know how you define sane.

Humh. Doesn't sound like a vanilla doc. I am going to Vote Yoshi. First off there is a distinct chance the thing is mostly lies anyways. Second off he voted for himself after I commented how townish I thought spiesr was for being willing to take a possible bullet for the team. Thirdly insane docs tend to be jailors, accidental killers or a host of other pleasant things the worst of which would be a recruiter (highly unlikely)

1) What is the chance the thing is mostly lies? As you stated in your first vote, you don't know me. How would you have any idea how I play or from what assumptions I start my analysis?

2) Here you go again back to the spiesr thing. a)what the hell does what you think about spiesr have to do with my voting patterns unless I am voting for him? b) why do you keep harping on that? Nobody thought your logic was good the first time and now that nobody cares you bring it up again?

3) None of my posts up to this point have been false. I am not an insane doctor and I don't know why you think that. Excuse the heck out of Sax for giving me some backstory. And then excuse me for playing to the backstory.

Clearly I have put sand in your vagina edoc as all your accusations against me are based more on an emotional, knee-jerk OMGUS for me calling you a liar, rather than any sense. Or you are angry because I am primarily speculative (the irony isn't lost on me here). Whatever the reason, I stand by my guns.

[pancakemix]

Dude, chill. He's voting you because you're messing around and not in any position to do so. You may want to tone it down a little.

Anyways, I think saf's just playing games the way he's laying down like this. It really bothers me. Especially since he's not arguing against any of my points at all. Which is why I'm sticking with him.

/, Drabod, Victor, your thoughts on these recent developments?

[Commander9]

Dude, chill. He's voting you because you're messing around and not in any position to do so. You may want to tone it down a little.

Anyways, I think saf's just playing games the way he's laying down like this. It really bothers me. Especially since he's not arguing against any of my points at all. Which is why I'm sticking with him.

/, Drabod, Victor, your thoughts on these recent developments?

To be fair, Yoshi does have a point about spiesr and that's something that I've noticed before - he's always defending him and saying that he's pro-town. I do think that spiesr might be town (oppose to what I thought at first when I though he'd be a very good scum), but I find this going on and on about from Edoc rather intriguing.

And also it seems that after Edoc's free pass Sully feels that he can just disappear again and not contribute anything to the discussion. Everyone else contributed at least mildly, whereas he has 3 posts in total, if I'm not mistaken.

[Anarkistsdream]

Why have several of you stated that I am 'trigger happy'? I have told you all to tell me who to kill... It will be on your hands. I don't understand how that can be viewed as me being trigger happy.

As far as Yoshi goes, I hate to say it, but he flipflops back and forth so much and tries so desperately to imply that I am scum and needs to be lynched, that it just sort of shouts "Take the attention off of me!!!"

[edocsil]

Dude, chill. He's voting you because you're messing around and not in any position to do so. You may want to tone it down a little.

Anyways, I think saf's just playing games the way he's laying down like this. It really bothers me. Especially since he's not arguing against any of my points at all. Which is why I'm sticking with him.

/, Drabod, Victor, your thoughts on these recent developments?

To be fair, Yoshi does have a point about spiesr and that's something that I've noticed before - he's always defending him and saying that he's pro-town. I do think that spiesr might be town (oppose to what I thought at first when I though he'd be a very good scum), but I find this going on and on about from Edoc rather intriguing.

And also it seems that after Edoc's free pass Sully feels that he can just disappear again and not contribute anything to the discussion. Everyone else contributed at least mildly, whereas he has 3 posts in total, if I'm not mistaken.

What my personal opinions considering Spiesr alignment are irrelevant. It is the fact that I said one of Spiesr's actions was pro town, and then Yoshi IMO emulated it.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, that accusation makes sense I guess. It's wrong though. I was not trying to emulate spiesr.

[edocsil]

Everyone in town knows me as Zanebone di Vincente. However, after the murders I changed my name and appearance. If getting a disguise with up to two murderers running around is insane, i don't want to know how you define sane.

Humh. Doesn't sound like a vanilla doc. I am going to Vote Yoshi. First off there is a distinct chance the thing is mostly lies anyways. Second off he voted for himself after I commented how townish I thought spiesr was for being willing to take a possible bullet for the team. Thirdly insane docs tend to be jailors, accidental killers or a host of other pleasant things the worst of which would be a recruiter (highly unlikely)

1) What is the chance the thing is mostly lies? As you stated in your first vote, you don't know me. How would you have any idea how I play or from what assumptions I start my analysis?

2) Here you go again back to the spiesr thing. a)what the hell does what you think about spiesr have to do with my voting patterns unless I am voting for him? b) why do you keep harping on that? Nobody thought your logic was good the first time and now that nobody cares you bring it up again?

3) None of my posts up to this point have been false. I am not an insane doctor and I don't know why you think that. Excuse the heck out of Sax for giving me some backstory. And then excuse me for playing to the backstory.

Clearly I have put sand in your vagina edoc as all your accusations against me are based more on an emotional, knee-jerk OMGUS for me calling you a liar, rather than any sense. Or you are angry because I am primarily speculative (the irony isn't lost on me here). Whatever the reason, I stand by my guns.

I brought this into a separate response because of its nature, it will have nothing to do with this game. I have nothing against you personally Yoshi, I am only playing a game, a game I try very hard to win. There are few players here I do not like. The short list is Vodean, a player who is long gone and blacklisted, Colton, another player long gone, and a few select people who have the habit of abandoning games they join. You are not on this list. You cannot get on this list from your actions in a single game.

As for lying, it is the name of the game. It must be done to win, always by the scum, often for the third party and even occasionally for the town. Any time someone says something you must always consider the benefits they may gain for lying.

Also, name calling is generally a area we don't go. Many of us do not have an issue with fine 4 letter words, it only bothers when you are intentionally insulting.

The last thing, which actually has a bit of relevance to the game is your sanity. You would never know if you were insane, it is not included in the role.

[Anarkistsdream]

Yeah, to know you are insane makes it pretty useless to be a doc, because you just won't protect people, effectively making you a vanilla townie.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok. An apology is in order. I am sorry edocsil.

Unfortunately, I must follow it with another piece of evidence which I think has been overlooked. SAF ALSO EMULATED spiesr. (Who was emulating edoc...). In fact, saf voted for nark, volunteered for the hammer but then never unvoted (until his case against me was building). I even pointed it out to him. This may be minor, but it certainly doesn't help saf's case one bit. I still think he is most likely to be mafia from the candidates we have.

The observant of you will have noted that my own vote is still on myself. I am saving it for a hammer on saf. If/when he turns up town, it will not look good for me (as he already pointed out). I have been the number one flinger of fecal matter in his direction. If I also lay down the hammer, the town will have to lynch me day 2. I perceive this as a fair situation as I also tried to ensure I took him with me (via obit in case anyone has forgotten). I am confident enough that me being town and him being mafia is enough to stack the odds in my favour though. I would like to thank PCM for putting the argument so eloquently above.

[DoomYoshi]

To another point, I have caught Drabod lurking at least once on this forum (although it may have been twice). What's the deal drabod? Not interested because you are VT? Or something more nefarious...