Kid arrested

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:19 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REHdio7h-e4

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:58 pm

Some things never change. http://harpers.org/archive/2005/05/0080518

That's Israel of course... a lot of war and religion and hatred, no wonder stuff like this happens.

Juan_Bottom · Post by **Juan_Bottom** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:50 pm

I'm reading Lt Colonel Nathan Sassman's book right now. He's a former American Battalion Commander who had a falling out with his superiors in Iraq. It's been pretty enlightening as to how a military or a police force will conduct a war when it wants to win VS when it doesn't believe in what it's doing. Obviously I have no idea what the kid did or didn't do. He could have been carrying weapons, shoplifting, been a runaway, or a witness. I don't know, it's hard to judge not being there and not understand a thing that's being said. But there's no doubt in my mind that all sides want to win this conflict. That's not a good thing with regard to creating peace.

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:55 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:I'm reading Lt Colonel Nathan Sassman's book right now. He's a former American Battalion Commander who had a falling out with his superiors in Iraq. It's been pretty enlightening as to how a military or a police force will conduct a war when it wants to win VS when it doesn't believe in what it's doing. Obviously I have no idea what the kid did or didn't do. He could have been carrying weapons, shoplifting, been a runaway, or a witness. I don't know, it's hard to judge not being there and not understand a thing that's being said. But there's no doubt in my mind that all sides want to win this conflict. That's not a good thing with regard to creating peace.

he threw a little stone at the police man

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:04 pm

I agree with Juan that I don't know what really happened (he might've done more than throw a stone...) but I wouldn't be surprised if the cops were just being douchebags.

Why don't we just move the Israelis to northern Canada and the Palestinians to Siberia? Then both of them can shut the Hell up.

Juan_Bottom · Post by **Juan_Bottom** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:10 pm

Pirlo wrote:
he threw a little stone at the police man

That makes a lot of sense. Sassaman talked about the mentality of the people in Iraq... if they threw stones at you, you had to throw them back. Anything less than an equal show of force would cause the public to lose respect for you, and would embolden them to do bigger attacks. So Sassaman ordered the 1-8 infantry to detain these kids when they could, and have their parents come and get them. From there, their parents handled it. It all makes sense when you're in a war zone. And it's the American method too.

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:17 pm

Army of GOD wrote:I agree with Juan that I don't know what really happened (he might've done more than throw a stone...) but I wouldn't be surprised if the cops were just being douchebags.

Why don't we just move the Israelis to northern Canada and the Palestinians to Siberia? Then both of them can shut the Hell up.

Israelis had been given a land in Siberia. they sat Israel there for some years, but it just didn't work as they wanted. later, they insisted to take Palestine, make millions of people homeless, and keep the war & killing machine on.

wars and conflicts are necessary for Israelis to keep extorting money from US & Europe. a lot of taxpayers cover the war, so why would they allow the peace to happen?

for them, peace is a luxury they can't afford because it would mean no extortion :lol:

Juan_Bottom · Post by **Juan_Bottom** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:22 pm

I think that the people of both Israel and Palestine do want peace. But their leaders wont allow it so long as they think that they can win the war. And both sides want completely different terms after victory.

Also, do you know what happens in the United States when you throw rocks at a police officer? The same thing as in the video.

pimpdave · Post by **pimpdave** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:25 pm

Pirlo wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REHdio7h-e4

Threat NEUTRALIZED

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:26 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, do you know what happens in the United States when you throw rocks at a police officer? The same thing as in the video.

If you're black, yes. If you're white, you get away with a "hey, please don't do that again".

Hannibał · Post by **Hannibał** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:31 pm

Not quite, children here won't be detained or questioned without their parants. Also it dosent show what happens after your detained, that's what really sets the 2 apart.

I know there is isolated incidents of police forcing confessions from children, later them being tossed out. But on a far less grand scale then our good buddys in middle east.. :roll:

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:32 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
he threw a little stone at the police man

That makes a lot of sense. Sassaman talked about the mentality of the people in Iraq... if they threw stones at you, you had to throw them back. Anything less than an equal show of force would cause the public to lose respect for you, and would embolden them to do bigger attacks. So Sassaman ordered the 1-8 infantry to detain these kids when they could, and have their parents come and get them. From there, their parents handled it. It all makes sense when you're in a war zone. And it's the American method too.

you just made me think of an interesting point.

in a very dictatorial country like Iraq where people are goats and policemen are wolves, and where people are set to fear cops so much; why would a kid be aggressive toward a soldier? what makes him that bold who could pick up a stone and throw it at a guy in military uniform? :-k

Army of GOD · Post by **Army of GOD** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:35 pm

Pirlo wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
he threw a little stone at the police man

That makes a lot of sense. Sassaman talked about the mentality of the people in Iraq... if they threw stones at you, you had to throw them back. Anything less than an equal show of force would cause the public to lose respect for you, and would embolden them to do bigger attacks. So Sassaman ordered the 1-8 infantry to detain these kids when they could, and have their parents come and get them. From there, their parents handled it. It all makes sense when you're in a war zone. And it's the American method too.

you just made me think of an interesting point.

in a very dictatorial country like Iraq where people are goats and policemen are wolves, and where people are set to fear cops so much; why would a kid be aggressive toward a soldier? what makes him that bold who could pick up a stone and throw it at a guy in military uniform?

This is why.

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:44 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:
Pirlo wrote:
he threw a little stone at the police man

That makes a lot of sense. Sassaman talked about the mentality of the people in Iraq... if they threw stones at you, you had to throw them back. Anything less than an equal show of force would cause the public to lose respect for you, and would embolden them to do bigger attacks. So Sassaman ordered the 1-8 infantry to detain these kids when they could, and have their parents come and get them. From there, their parents handled it. It all makes sense when you're in a war zone. And it's the American method too.

you just made me think of an interesting point.

in a very dictatorial country like Iraq where people are goats and policemen are wolves, and where people are set to fear cops so much; why would a kid be aggressive toward a soldier? what makes him that bold who could pick up a stone and throw it at a guy in military uniform?

This is why.

no you didn't get it mate. kids I'm talking about fear the local police. they would not f*ck with them.

Juan_Bottom · Post by **Juan_Bottom** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:51 pm

Pirlo wrote:why would a kid be aggressive toward a soldier? what makes him that bold who could pick up a stone and throw it at a guy in military uniform?

That's a learned behavior stemming from the fact that everyone else in his local environment is doing this, because they do not respect the American forces. That happens when the American forces fail to establish themselves in a legitimately authoritative manner. If an insurgent shoots at you, you need to hunt him down and kill or capture him. You don't leave just leave the area to avoid causing collateral damage, as often happens in Iraq. If a kid throws a rock at you, you need to throw one back,... or detain him until his parents pick him up. That's how you cause a populace to respect your military presence.
Furthermore I want to address this:

Pirlo wrote:in a very dictatorial country like Iraq where people are goats and policemen are wolves,

Saddam's old police force was nothing but a corrupt group of thugs. In Bahran, 1/4 of the police officer's on the payroll never showed up to work. Calling on the police for help often got you in more trouble than taking care of a problem yourself. The American forces in Iraq have replaced almost 100% of Saddam's former police force, though corruption continues... The point being that American's as a police force are not what the Iraqis are used to.

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:24 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:Saddam's old police force was nothing but a corrupt group of thugs. In Bahran, 1/4 of the police officer's on the payroll never showed up to work. Calling on the police for help often got you in more trouble than taking care of a problem yourself. The American forces in Iraq have replaced almost 100% of Saddam's former police force, though corruption continues... The point being that American's as a police force are not what the Iraqis are used to.

you are implying that USA came to Iraq for help not imperialism.

TA1LGUNN3R · Post by **TA1LGUNN3R** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:25 pm

From the description in the video:

Testimonies collected by the rights groups reveal a pattern of children some as young as seven years old being arrested in late-night raids, handcuffed and interrogated for hours without either a parent or lawyer being present. In many cases, the children have reported physical violence or threats. Particularly troubling, are testimonies of children under the age of 12, the minimal age set by the law for criminal liability, who were taken in for questioning, and who were not spared rough and abusive interrogation.

It was taken on a Tuesday morning after Israeli authorities had completed another house raid. As the army and police were leaving, one police van stops and two border police officers jump out. 11-year-old Kareem Tamimi comes running into the frame, running towards his mother. The camerawoman begins shouting "Child! Child!" in Hebrew to the border police officers to no avail.
The border police officers capture the child, handling him as if he was a fully grown adult. Within seconds he is in the police van and on the way out of the village toward an undisclosed location. His mother's cries as she slams her hands against the windows of police van are disregarded by the border police officers.
Kareem's arrest was part of a strategy to apply as much pressure as possible on his 14-year-old brother Islam, who was arrested the previous day in a night raid, in order that Islam will deliver any script that his investigators wanted. The strategy worked, and Kareem was released later the same evening.
After this arrest happened, the army spokespersons unit alerted the media and twitter followers that another 'wanted suspect' was taken in for security questioning. They failed to mention that he was an 11-year-old child.
Tomorrow I will post another video from the current wave of military repression of Nabi Saleh. These videos, seldom seen in the mainstream media, give the Palestinian perspective on life under Israeli Occupation. This is the price that Palestinians pay if they refuse to be silent under Occupation.

Juan wrote:If a kid throws a rock at you, you need to throw one back,... or detain him until his parents pick him up. That's how you cause a populace to respect your military presence.

I can't say I have any knowledge in the matter, but I don't really thinks this applies to an 11-year old child. They didn't need like 10 officers to capture this kid, even if he had thrown a rock. That seems like it would backfire, since all this would do is breed distrust between the police force and civilians for abducting a child and bracing him for what his brother did.

-TG

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:34 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:From the description in the video:

Testimonies collected by the rights groups reveal a pattern of children some as young as seven years old being arrested in late-night raids, handcuffed and interrogated for hours without either a parent or lawyer being present. In many cases, the children have reported physical violence or threats. Particularly troubling, are testimonies of children under the age of 12, the minimal age set by the law for criminal liability, who were taken in for questioning, and who were not spared rough and abusive interrogation.

It was taken on a Tuesday morning after Israeli authorities had completed another house raid. As the army and police were leaving, one police van stops and two border police officers jump out. 11-year-old Kareem Tamimi comes running into the frame, running towards his mother. The camerawoman begins shouting "Child! Child!" in Hebrew to the border police officers to no avail.
The border police officers capture the child, handling him as if he was a fully grown adult. Within seconds he is in the police van and on the way out of the village toward an undisclosed location. His mother's cries as she slams her hands against the windows of police van are disregarded by the border police officers.
Kareem's arrest was part of a strategy to apply as much pressure as possible on his 14-year-old brother Islam, who was arrested the previous day in a night raid, in order that Islam will deliver any script that his investigators wanted. The strategy worked, and Kareem was released later the same evening.
After this arrest happened, the army spokespersons unit alerted the media and twitter followers that another 'wanted suspect' was taken in for security questioning. They failed to mention that he was an 11-year-old child.
Tomorrow I will post another video from the current wave of military repression of Nabi Saleh. These videos, seldom seen in the mainstream media, give the Palestinian perspective on life under Israeli Occupation. This is the price that Palestinians pay if they refuse to be silent under Occupation.

Juan wrote:If a kid throws a rock at you, you need to throw one back,... or detain him until his parents pick him up. That's how you cause a populace to respect your military presence.

I can't say I have any knowledge in the matter, but I don't really thinks this applies to an 11-year old child. They didn't need like 10 officers to capture this kid, even if he had thrown a rock. That seems like it would backfire, since all this would do is breed distrust between the police force and civilians for abducting a child and bracing him for what his brother did.

-TG

very good point

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:39 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:From the description in the video:

Testimonies collected by the rights groups reveal a pattern of children some as young as seven years old being arrested in late-night raids, handcuffed and interrogated for hours without either a parent or lawyer being present. In many cases, the children have reported physical violence or threats. Particularly troubling, are testimonies of children under the age of 12, the minimal age set by the law for criminal liability, who were taken in for questioning, and who were not spared rough and abusive interrogation.

It was taken on a Tuesday morning after Israeli authorities had completed another house raid. As the army and police were leaving, one police van stops and two border police officers jump out. 11-year-old Kareem Tamimi comes running into the frame, running towards his mother. The camerawoman begins shouting "Child! Child!" in Hebrew to the border police officers to no avail.
The border police officers capture the child, handling him as if he was a fully grown adult. Within seconds he is in the police van and on the way out of the village toward an undisclosed location. His mother's cries as she slams her hands against the windows of police van are disregarded by the border police officers.
Kareem's arrest was part of a strategy to apply as much pressure as possible on his 14-year-old brother Islam, who was arrested the previous day in a night raid, in order that Islam will deliver any script that his investigators wanted. The strategy worked, and Kareem was released later the same evening.
After this arrest happened, the army spokespersons unit alerted the media and twitter followers that another 'wanted suspect' was taken in for security questioning. They failed to mention that he was an 11-year-old child.
Tomorrow I will post another video from the current wave of military repression of Nabi Saleh. These videos, seldom seen in the mainstream media, give the Palestinian perspective on life under Israeli Occupation. This is the price that Palestinians pay if they refuse to be silent under Occupation.

Juan wrote:If a kid throws a rock at you, you need to throw one back,... or detain him until his parents pick him up. That's how you cause a populace to respect your military presence.

I can't say I have any knowledge in the matter, but I don't really thinks this applies to an 11-year old child. They didn't need like 10 officers to capture this kid, even if he had thrown a rock. That seems like it would backfire, since all this would do is breed distrust between the police force and civilians for abducting a child and bracing him for what his brother did.

-TG

I think the distrust has already been bred... A little bit more never hurts.

john9blue · Post by **john9blue** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:13 pm

Army of GOD wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Also, do you know what happens in the United States when you throw rocks at a police officer? The same thing as in the video.

If you're black, yes. If you're white, you get away with a "hey, please don't do that again".

wrong, and what does that have to do with anything?

Juan_Bottom · Post by **Juan_Bottom** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:25 pm

Pirlo wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Saddam's old police force was nothing but a corrupt group of thugs. In Bahran, 1/4 of the police officer's on the payroll never showed up to work. Calling on the police for help often got you in more trouble than taking care of a problem yourself. The American forces in Iraq have replaced almost 100% of Saddam's former police force, though corruption continues... The point being that American's as a police force are not what the Iraqis are used to.

you are implying that USA came to Iraq for help not imperialism.

No I'm not.

I've always said that Americans went to Iraq for three reasons #1 is because they could, #2 is for the oil (which they couldn't take anyway), and #3 is war for profit.

Pirlo wrote:
very good point

Where did the rock story come from?

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:30 pm

Juan_Bottom wrote:
Pirlo wrote:very good point

Where did the rock story come from?

heard it on the news

puddytat · Post by **puddytat** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:21 am

I think if you throw a rock at a any policeman in any country, you're bound to get arrested.

Pirlo · Post by **Pirlo** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:21 am

puddytat wrote:I think if you throw a rock at a any policeman in any country, you're bound to get arrested.

oh yeah. exactly like the way shown in the video. without parents

PLAYER57832 · Post by **PLAYER57832** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:05 pm

Pirlo wrote:why would a kid be aggressive toward a soldier? what makes him that bold who could pick up a stone and throw it at a guy in military uniform?

Desperation.

The truth is that in any emergency/highly threatening situation, kids are the first to respond violantly. They don't have the years of social indoctrination telling them "don't". They don't have the perspective of years telling them "this will get better". And when all they see is things staying the same or getting worse, not just within their entire lives, but also hearing that it has been that way for much of their parent's entire lives, it is easy for them to think they have little or nothing to really lose from trying violance.

In this case, watching Palestine stagnate or go backward while seeing highly visible and recognized improvements all over Israel.. improvements that are celebrated while Palestiniens get ignored makes it worse. These kids get TV, too. They can see how we in the US and Israel live.. and it makes them even more angry.

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