real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[Funkyterrance]

True. If you get caught speeding you can get a warning. If you get caught murdering someone, its a different story.

[Dako]

I think the whole system "first infraction - warning only" is a bad system. If you look at real world laws there is no such thing as first infraction.

In my country, first-time offenders don't have to go to jail for less severe crimes, even if they get a jail sentence.

Yes, we do have some discounts for "new" people, but some major crimes (murder or such shit) is the same for the first timer. Of course serial guys get stricter punishment, but I am talking here about major infractions. No one cares if you stole 3 apples from the store. But that doesn't work anyway, we have a highly corrupted government that does the law their own way. Money and position solves most of the cases for them.

[Johnny Rockets]

When you are Conqueror, or Prime minister, or the President, your actions get put under the microscope a little more than some multi-cook.

This does not mean the punishment should be any harsher, but a point reset at least and that it be brought to the Community’s attention that this persons hands are no longer clean.

Whatever impact on his reputation will be the true punishment, especially for someone who takes great pride in his accomplishments and lets it be known often, and in a public forum.

You do realize this is an internet game site and not rl. Right?

This lynch mob mentality reflects poorly upon the community many of you are so concerned about.


The ONLY accusation, that if he is found guilty of, that would justify a point reset is the INTENTIONAL points dumping of Jobi's account. If you look at it thru unbiased eyes the evidence does NOT support a determination of guilt. Intent, which is what it boils down to, is not evident.

The warning, for Blitz joining public games, was correct and in line with the established punishment guideline. But to cry for his head solely because he is conqueror and publicly takes pride in his CC accomplishments is ludicrous and reflects poorly on the community.

Get over it.

This isn't about a witch hunt, I was making a point in that when you are a popular public figure in any social area.....even an internet site....you are bound to draw a little more attention to any allegations than lets say ....you.

If all it was was joining games, then yes the warning is sufficient. However if ANY other infractions are proven, then let justice be carried out porportional to the impact of the
alleged deeds.

Since the investigation is ongoing, your perception may not be all together correct.
The witch hunting crowd has been settled down so that there is no mob rule lynching, but to follow the "Nothing to see here" and "Sit down and Shut Up" path you seem to be pushing is not good for the image of the site or the communities reputation of a fair place to play this game we all know and love.

Let it all run its course.


JRock

[Funkyterrance]

I think that cheating, as far as a game goes, is the equivalent of murder in rl. What is a game without rules? If you bend the rules or cheat you are essentially "killing" the game.
Stealing apples, relatively speaking, is poor analogy.

[safariguy5]

I think that cheating, as far as a game goes, is the equivalent of murder in rl. What is a game without rules? If you bend the rules or cheat you are essentially "killing" the game.
Stealing apples, relatively speaking, is poor analogy.

Well, what would say flaming in 1 forum post be then in analogy to secret diplomacy or throwing games? It all depends on the scope and the breadth, but often it's punished the same way under the current system.

[SirSebstar]

actually that analogy would go along the lines of making the site less enjoyable, so yea that would still fit

[jackal31]

jackal31 takes this where it should not have gone, complaining of a mob lynching, ego bashing, and complaining that blitz gets tore apart whenever he makes a statement, and generally defending his innocence.

Well Robinette, you already baited one person into making a statement and deciding to trash him on it. If you actually read what is written and what it is in response to, then you might be able to use the "pea" to understand what it means. I personally think you are quite cold (and I am being generously polite) in what you did, but we dont need to go there.
So yes, if you cant tell me what this is about, then I think I am dead nuts on. And I will offer a "general defense" as I have been trying to all along. I dont think anyone needs to defend Blitz as he offered his word, which is something you asked for and questioned. So why should he have to defend it further? Oh yeah, its because you want to use his word against him and twist what he is saying. So as far as staying on topic, the thread allows for both "evidence" and "defenses" to be shared for the accused.

[Robinette]

Well Robinette, you already baited one person into making a statement and deciding to trash him on it. If you actually read what is written and what it is in response to, then you might be able to use the "pea" to understand what it means. I personally think you are quite cold (and I am being generously polite) in what you did, but we dont need to go there.
So yes, if you cant tell me what this is about, then I think I am dead nuts on. And I will offer a "general defense" as I have been trying to all along. I dont think anyone needs to defend Blitz as he offered his word, which is something you asked for and questioned. So why should he have to defend it further? Oh yeah, its because you want to use his word against him and twist what he is saying. So as far as staying on topic, the thread allows for both "evidence" and "defenses" to be shared for the accused.

omigod... are you serious?

so not only do i have to take flack from all the blitz haters for presenting an edited version of his response which presented blitz in a better light than he did himself... but now i have to take idiotic flack from a die hard supporter that can't see what is right in front of his face...

Perhaps I should post Blitz's full response here for all to see... is that REALLY what you want? no, i think not... my edited version presented blitz's storyline in a better light,,, certainly much better than his own unedited words. Seriously... how could that not be the most obvious thing to you... well let me tell you that it was certainly obvious to the people that don't like blitz that i had thrown him a life preserver, a valiant attempt to keep him from drowning in an ocean of bad sentiment... and yet, with additional posts he still managed to sink further... and yet you seem to think this is my fault, for you claim I am using his words against him and twisting what he is saying... the only twisting i did was to help him... unbelievable!

[greenoaks]

I think that cheating, as far as a game goes, is the equivalent of murder in rl. What is a game without rules? If you bend the rules or cheat you are essentially "killing" the game.
Stealing apples, relatively speaking, is poor analogy.

Well, what would say flaming in 1 forum post be then in analogy to secret diplomacy or throwing games? It all depends on the scope and the breadth, but often it's punished the same way under the current system.

and the escalating nature of the punishment is great if they are back to back transgressions.

but it is possible to be new here and get a warning for trolling or baiting someone, perhaps then some spamming, be a model citizen for 4 years and lose it one night resulting in a vacation.

i would like for the timeframe between incidents to be a factor in whether you are escalated, start at the beginning again or one of the spots inbetween.

[owenshooter]

i hear a lot of grumbling about the escalating punishment scale, and it is about time people are recognizing the flaw in it. HOWEVER, the escalating punishment scale was thought up by the community in a thread on racism, which was pretty much unchecked and lightly punished on the site. it was never intended for a SITE WIDE usage, but that is how the admins decided to use it after a very lengthy forum discussion initiated by many of us in the community on the lack of real punishment for racism. soon it was implemented site wide to obvious confusion (for reasons which we are seeing right now in this case) and when we all began to complain of it they said, "you created it." they had us... it was/is a GREAT tool for punishing racism on the site, but when we all debated it, it was never meant to be used widescale on the site for all infractions... many of you were not around when the debate occurred and when the system was put into place, so i thought i would share that the system was thought up in a debate by the community with the admins, fine tuned and then implemented in a way in which it was never intended...-the black jesus

[Bones2484]

Always has seemed more of a tool to punish forum infractions as opposed to game infractions.

[Funkyterrance]

Are you suggesting the two should have separate rules as far as warnings/punishment are concerned? Hmmm.

[Chariot of Fire]

Of course it makes sense for the punishment to fit the crime.

If someone has hijacked an account (as seems to be the case yesterday for poor Commander62890 who was entered in a huge string of speed games which were all deadbeated) then it would probably warrant a permanent site ban.

If somebody knowingly takes advantage of Commander62890's predicament, e.g. Hannibal 19 (who admitted it via a wall post he sent me) then a points adjustment would seem fair.

If someone posts something inflammatory in a forum then a warning (first offence) would seem just.

For me the greatest factor is whether a person does something with malicious intent or not. After that has been established then certain mitigating circumstances should be factored in, e.g. level of experience or one's expectations of that individual.

An authority figure (e.g. a policeman) who commits a crime will receive a far harsher penalty than a common citizen for the same offence. This is because that person was in position of trust and breached it, i.e. he should have known better.

This is the same principle which governs why we as CC members would expect more of a player who is Conqueror.

[Funkyterrance]

This is true Chariots but another facet of said policeman is that police officers often have friends in "higher places" that can protect them from punishment.

[demonfork]

Ode to Sitzaholic the fallen one...

Sitz coveting the top score spot currently held by King_Herpes, he sets out to make CC history.

Sitz realizing how incredibly difficult it is to gain points when one reaches the 5000 point mark, (something only a handful of us understand) he starts to fixate...staying up at night, pondering, plotting, he finally yells out "I AM THE GREAT BLITZAHOLIC...THIS IS MY DESTINY!" but to no avail...more elusive than ever the top score calls out to him louder almost deafening ..he starts questioning everything, including himself, he is alone.

Haunted by the top score position's persistent beckoning, he starts to feel desperate until Sitz finally comes to a crossroads in his CC career when then Devil presents him with an opportunity to make some easy points...In the past Sitz was always able to resist the temptations of the Devil but this time was different...he was tired, confused and weak..."I....can't.....hold....on....any...longer"... In the end Sitz finally succumbs to the Devils offer... "No one will know" he says "I can still be great"...The intoxicating effects of every precious extra point gained by the plummeting score of one unsuspecting tournament player was like crack to an addict....He was hooked and the Devil claimed victory yet again and what a great victory it was.

Sitz fearing the worst he tries to hold on, "I can hide this"...I have friends on the inside...I'm the Conqueror...I have the backing of THOTA God damn it"... but it was all for naught, the damage had been done and his people were out for blood...some wanted banishment others a point reset, an example needed to be made the people demanded it.

But I ask you-

Could there be any harsher punishment given then that of the now tainted name of a player once known as Blitzaholic?


-FIN-

[owenshooter]

Always has seemed more of a tool to punish forum infractions as opposed to game infractions.

forum infractions are more harshly treated than game infractions. break the rules of the game, buy back in and you are treated as an upstanding member of the community... break the forum rules or rules created to deal with specific individuals, and you can receive up to a 6 month or life long ban from things that affect your ability to play the game and communicate with your partners... i have felt that the punishment system has needed an overhaul for quite some time. people look around, see how people that cheat are let off the hook, so they hook. the pluses of cheating around here far outweigh the consequences... it just doesn't make any sense...-the black jesus

p.s.-people like t-o-m should have their cases reviewed to let them back in the forums, able to use pm's, and able to join/play tournaments. nothing t-o-m did is anywhere CLOSE to what the accusations are in this thread or close to the damage a point dump and/or multi can do in general. i don't buy that it would take too long to review his and the less than one dozen others that have received permanent bans from CC for forum violations.

[lord voldemort]

while i agree...what tom did was no where near enough to deserve life ban from forums...he did do a lit of little things to get there...
having said that he still doesnt deserve it.

[eddie2]

just think a min how many time in game chat have you called someone a di"|khead or worse. in games it gets you nothing no warning etc. but the minite you say it in the forums you could by the way things are get a perma ban from posting.

[Chariot of Fire]

I used to be clanmates with t-o-m in The Untouchables. One minute he was there, next <poof> he was gone. I was never into chat forums though so didn't take time out to see what had gone down. I was a mere upstart noob in those days (at least I felt nooby, as it was my first clan).

Worst case imo was buddysystem. Poor bugger had his account hacked into so it got suspended. He himself couldn't log in and post some form of defence so he resorted to creating another account to enable him to do so. Got busted for being a multi, lol.

At least that's how I think it went down. All a bit naff really.

[eddie2]

I used to be clanmates with t-o-m in The Untouchables. One minute he was there, next <poof> he was gone. I was never into chat forums though so didn't take time out to see what had gone down. I was a mere upstart noob in those days (at least I felt nooby, as it was my first clan).

Worst case imo was buddysystem. Poor bugger had his account hacked into so it got suspended. He himself couldn't log in and post some form of defence so he resorted to creating another account to enable him to do so. Got busted for being a multi, lol.

At least that's how I think it went down. All a bit naff really.

lol yep thats how it went down he was busted for giving his password in 2 clan games. they did not know how to e ticket at first so started a multi to say his side he was then told no chance because he opened a multi account.

[safariguy5]

while i agree...what tom did was no where near enough to deserve life ban from forums...he did do a lit of little things to get there...
having said that he still doesnt deserve it.

Can we review DM's case? Please?

[owenshooter]

while i agree...what tom did was no where near enough to deserve life ban from forums...he did do a lit of little things to get there...
having said that he still doesnt deserve it.

Can we review DM's case? Please?

andy has already stated that it would take far too long for team CC to review the less than 12 permanently banned members cases. i don't know how long it could take to review them, but i doubt each one would take more than a few minutes now that we have some perspective on the matter and the great forum wash is somewhat over... perhaps another thread should be started for that, so this one can stay on topic. in the C&A thread andy has said they should have a ruling by tomorrow. the most interesting aspect of his post was that the Turtle is involved in this decision, so you know they are taking it seriously. if you call lack in from the beach and his thai lady/boys, you had better have a great reason!!! anyway, let's stick on topic and maybe someone can undertake another thread for t-o-m, dm, dagip and others...-the black t-o-m

[gannable]

LOL

great post Demonfork

probably reality too

[safariguy5]

LOL

great post Demonfork

probably reality too

Except that when the devil came to him, he was probably looking in a mirror.

[jimfinn]

I recently asked a player to sit my account. I was out of town for about 28 hours. This player took one turn for me in each of my two active games. Nothing else happened. The end. He had instructions from me in the sit request for how to play each game, which he followed. Why can't it always work so nicely?