Rorke's Drift. [QUENCHED]

[TaCktiX]

One thing about the 150 yard line: The northern trees cut it off, whereas every other impassable has the line come right up to it and seem to "disappear." I would suggest doing a little erasure of the tree bases.

There's a really small divot to the right of the chieftain symbol in the legend. I noticed other ones in the material, but that one seems like a goof instead of something intentional. Would suggest smoothing that over.

I believe you mean to put an apostrophe when regarding Britain's highest military honor.

That, and the British troops would not be AFFECTED by the decay.

Also, the potential bevel effect on the map's title hasn't made it there. I rather like the suggestion by isaiah, but it's your call taste-wise.

The new connection between the iButhos I don't see as a problem.

Overall I want to say really nice work taking this from a map that I was thinking of during the Gameplay phase "he's going to have a LOT of work ahead of him if it keeps on looking like this" to one that is dang near a Graphics stamp (IMHO, I don't have stamping authority on it).

[koontz1973]

Thanks for your reply TaCktiX on the legend and iButho link. I will deal with those things you pointed out.

With the bevel in the title area, it looked odd without the legend. As both a white, the black and white on the bevel really stand out to an extreme that looked bad. Will put it in for the next update tomorrow for everyone to see.

[Gillipig]

I don't like the placement of the captains! As it is now you can hold the win condition with only one border "sheiss". Put the Captains further away from each other to avoid a too easy win condition!

[koontz1973]

I don't like the placement of the captains! As it is now you can hold the win condition with only one border "sheiss". Put the Captains further away from each other to avoid a too easy win condition!

Right now, the configuration of Rorke's Drift means that all entrances have an equal amount of neutrals to get to them. By moving them around / apart, you will end up with an imbalance (I had one in a earlier version and solved this by giving one entrance more neutrals, but it made the map seem lop sided). With Schiess, Bromhead and Chard, to even take the winning condition you need to hack through 15 neutrals, another 6 to even get to them. That is 21 neutrals (for now).

By having the one border it gives any player who goes for it a chance to hold them for the turn.
2 borders would not work as it would imbalance the map.
3 borders could work but with 3 borders to protect, no one in there right mind would go for them and then what would be the point of them being a winning condition.

[natty dread]

The wall between Hook & Jones looks like a huge dick.

Aaah! I can't unsee it!

Ok but seriously... this is starting to shape up. Much improvement has been made.

The yellow banks on the river look somewhat unnatural. Maybe try making them a bit more light-brown, with a smoother texture, and have them fade into the water...

The river itself could use a bit more depth.

The legend and title could be separated from the main map a bit better... try some drop shadow, or a bit of stroke, or maybe both... play with the layer modes.

The icons could use more contrast - some of them seem to drown into the background somewhat. Make them stand out more.

[Gillipig]

I don't like the placement of the captains! As it is now you can hold the win condition with only one border "sheiss". Put the Captains further away from each other to avoid a too easy win condition!

Right now, the configuration of Rorke's Drift means that all entrances have an equal amount of neutrals to get to them. By moving them around / apart, you will end up with an imbalance (I had one in a earlier version and solved this by giving one entrance more neutrals, but it made the map seem lop sided). With Schiess, Bromhead and Chard, to even take the winning condition you need to hack through 15 neutrals, another 6 to even get to them. That is 21 neutrals (for now).

By having the one border it gives any player who goes for it a chance to hold them for the turn.
2 borders would not work as it would imbalance the map.
3 borders could work but with 3 borders to protect, no one in there right mind would go for them and then what would be the point of them being a winning condition.

Making Chard border only 593 Jones and Bromhead border only Reynolds along with 593 Jones and Reynolds being 3 neutral instead of 1 and Scheiss 1 neutral instead of 3 would make every entrance except the one bordering Williams equal. All others would have to take down 24 neutrals. Someone coming through Williams could chose to only take down 23 but then he'd have to split his stack. Most reasonably he would chose to take 24 like the others! It would mean an increase in neutrals one have to take down with 3. And two borders would be required to hold. Maybe it gets a little too hard that way but it's not an unreasonable option!

[koontz1973]

The wall between Hook & Jones looks like a huge dick.

Aaah! I can't unsee it!

The dick you see is not there.

Thanks natty, will get on that tonight and post it tomorrow. Was just about to post a new image.

Making Chard border only 593 Jones and Bromhead border only Reynolds along with 593 Jones and Reynolds being 3 neutral instead of 1 and Scheiss 1 neutral instead of 3 would make every entrance except the one bordering Williams equal. All others would have to take down 24 neutrals. Someone coming through Williams could chose to only take down 23 but then he'd have to split his stack. Most reasonably he would chose to take 24 like the others! It would mean an increase in neutrals one have to take down with 3. And two borders would be required to hold. Maybe it gets a little too hard that way but it's not an unreasonable option!

Gillipig, in no way what you are saying unreasonable and I can understand the 1 border problem over the 2 or more borders. But you said it yourself with your solution. Coming in with your plan makes Williams out of balance with the others. There is one way to do this with an increase with borders is to keep the neutrals the same but open up Reynolds and 593 Jones to there respective winning condition partners. This would increase the openings to 3 (2 defensible territs) and keep the balance. But we come back to the problem of winning conditions held with neutrals. Make it to hard to grab and hold, no one plays for them and goes for the straight knock out. Why have one if it is not doable.

But I will have a think about doing it.

[koontz1973]

Version 28 (large)

Click image to enlarge.

Corrected all mistakes pointed out.
Redid the sand around the wet river.
Gave more depth to river (not much but some).
Added the bevel around legend and title areas. Looks too white for me but if you guys like it then fine.
New border for iButho is staying.
Toned down the saturation on the rocks and green impassable as they looked too shiny. Should be good now.
Went through with a fine tooth comb and removed all artefacts.

Thought I would try to get the small one done as it is needed and to make sure it all works at the reduced size. Is there anything that now needs to be done?
Version 28 (small)

Click image to enlarge.

A couple of requests have been made in regards to changing the layout. Here are the reasons why I do not want to do this and if anyone can say why doing it is better then OK, it will go in.
1.Increasing the openings to the winning condition. Been thinking about this a lot over night and I have to say that I do not like this as it would make the condition too hard to capture and hold. With this in mind then, the neutral values can be moved up to make getting them harder in the first place if it proves to be too easy to grab them.
2.Placing the 2 buildings back at the top and bottom of the outpost. Again, I do not want this as it caused confusion over what the front line was. Even with the icons for the front line in place, one was always going to be a different colour. Having the mud floor in a building looks ridiculous and having the slab floor in the outpost courtyard looked even sillier.

I noticed in this version after posting that a few of he names need to be moved. They already have and will post that with the next update.

Is there anything that now needs to be done?
Is there anything that now needs to be done?

[Gillipig]

I can spot a few details I don't like! The officers heads looks like a part of the bunker. Moving them a bit or changing the color of the helmet would solve the problem. Also the bushes doesn't look as good as the trees! They look like bright green blobs! And the ground underneath the trees would look better if it had the same color as the territory it stands on.

[Sniper08]

chard and brom have some sort of yellow glow or outline on them that doesnt look normal like the other icons for the british.

Weren't you gonna change the trees back to the way they were without the brown trees. Also werent you gonna change the walls instead of having them as sandbags?

you didnt fix the rorkes drift sign top right.

[koontz1973]

I can spot a few details I don't like! The officers heads looks like a part of the bunker. Moving them a bit or changing the color of the helmet would solve the problem. Also the bushes doesn't look as good as the trees! They look like bright green blobs! And the ground underneath the trees would look better if it had the same color as the territory it stands on.

Officers I can move and give a slightly different colour to.
Will have a go at changing the bushes to a different shade.
The ground underneath the trees though will stay the same for all (continuity). Added a few highlights though this morning for he next update.

[koontz1973]

chard and brom have some sort of yellow glow or outline on them that doesnt look normal like the other icons for the british.

Weren't you gonna change the trees back to the way they were without the brown trees. Also werent you gonna change the walls instead of having them as sandbags?

you didnt fix the rorkes drift sign top right.

I put that yellow/brown glow in. Was trying to get them to stand out more. Will remove it.
I changed the trees back to all green but placed a couple of the browner ones in in each section. This sort of makes sense as no bunch of trees look identical. Removed all of the lighter green ones though.
With the walls (buildings) it was causing confusion over the British front line. Even with the icons, people were saying what is the front line as 4 out of the 5 had a different background. This was also when I had the union jack icon for them so that really stood out. Also with the calls for a removal of 1 or 2 of the impassables, it sort of made sense to make the walls one of them.

I did fix the sign I thought. It is taken from this...

Will have another go at making it straighter but I would not want it to straight.


Thanks Gilipig and Sniper. Will post a new image tonight with changes.

[koontz1973]

Version 29

Click image to enlarge.

OK, played around with the bushes.
Redid Rorke's Drift title.
Sorted out the officer icons (glow and helmets) Made helmets lighter. Better?
Sorted all names out.

[koontz1973]

Latest Version [30]
Large (840 / 800)

Click image to enlarge.

Small (630 / 600)

Click image to enlarge.

Added a lot of shading where needed. Side of dry river, under trees etc.
Played around with bushes more.
Redid bevel to legend and title.
A few territ lines went under the trees ground. like the 150 yard line, brought them out.
Added glow around the territ lines.

What's left? Anything else missing?

[Seamus76]

Looking good. I don't know if it's my eyes or what, but the left side river warriors are really hard to see. Especially on the small version.

[koontz1973]

Will get that changed. Post it in a few minutes.

[Seamus76]

Now that's service.

[koontz1973]

Now that's service.

Always try to do my best.
Latest Version [31]
Large (840 / 800)

Click image to enlarge.

Small (630 / 600)

Click image to enlarge.

Should be easier to see. With the wording as well (river warrior in the legend) it should occur to 99.99% of players. Any lighter they became ghosts and looked unnatural. Moved the middle one onto the bridge so he does not compete with 2 layers of shadows. Lightened the rocks and water a bit.

[TaCktiX]

I can tell you did a direct downscale of the large, as all of the text isn't crisp. See if you can adjust the size (which is most likely fractional (which is bad)) so that the text looks as good as it does in the large, just smaller. Also, you left the 88's on, and they shouldn't be scaling all things considered.

And what does the Dingone and Zethembe rock have tire tracks in it for? Automobiles weren't mainstream in the 1870's...

[RedBaron0]

Since it's on a rock, I wouldn't see those marks as meing "tire tracks" but the parallel lines are a little odd, and distracting there.

And yeah the direct scaling from large to small isn't gonna fly... you really do, as anyone with a quenched map will atest, have to make the small separately from the large. Some layers you can scale individually and move to a new file, but text has to be redone, and borders usually need to be redrawn. Although these don't look bad at all. It's a bit of work, but well worth it.

[koontz1973]

Thanks guys, was never sue about the small map on how to get that done. Will start on that tonight and get it fixed. I will also remove one of the "tire tracks" as they did have bicycles then.

[koontz1973]

Latest Version [32]
Large (840 / 800)

Click image to enlarge.

Small (630 / 600)

Click image to enlarge.

New small image (done without scaling the whole thing down).

Removed one of the tire tracks from both images.

Questions that I would like answered.
Does the small image need to be an exact copy (pixel for pixel)?
Which image does the site use for live play?
With the army numbers in the small image, does the full size numbers need to go into each territ?
Looking at the xml stage, I have not figured it out yet so if anyone can either give me a crash course in it I would be grateful. If that does not work, does anyone fancy doing it for the map?

[natty dread]

Questions that I would like answered.
Does the small image need to be an exact copy (pixel for pixel)?
Which image does the site use for live play?
With the army numbers in the small image, does the full size numbers need to go into each territ?
Looking at the xml stage, I have not figured it out yet so if anyone can either give me a crash course in it I would be grateful. If that does not work, does anyone fancy doing it for the map?

No
Both
Yes
Try XML wizard http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6&t=105494

[koontz1973]

Questions that I would like answered.
Does the small image need to be an exact copy (pixel for pixel)?
Which image does the site use for live play?
With the army numbers in the small image, does the full size numbers need to go into each territ?
Looking at the xml stage, I have not figured it out yet so if anyone can either give me a crash course in it I would be grateful. If that does not work, does anyone fancy doing it for the map?

No
Both
Yes
Try XML wizard http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6&t=105494

Thanks natty.
Here is the small with the army numbers in. I only used the neutral 88s but it shows that each territ has more than enough room to be clear.

Click image to enlarge.

looked at that xml wizard and it just went right over my head. Will give it another go when I need to get it written, but if I fail, do you fancy having a go at it?

Which image does the site use for live play? = Both

How can they use both, the image would be really messed up if they are not direct copies pixel for pixel. I should of phrased the question differently. What image do I see when taking my turn?

[natty dread]

looked at that xml wizard and it just went right over my head. Will give it another go when I need to get it written, but if I fail, do you fancy having a go at it?

Sorry, no. I don't have the time.

How can they use both, the image would be really messed up if they are not direct copies pixel for pixel. I should of phrased the question differently. What image do I see when taking my turn?

Depends on your settings. You can switch between using large or small map. Some have smaller monitors so they play with the small, some play with the large.