USA Downgraded

[Phatscotty]

newsflash: the default argument was political bullshit scare tactics.

Your assertion that politics has an effect on our rating at a time when our debt is passing 100% of our GDP is completely asinine.

Ah well, apparently the agencies disagreed with you. Or did you miss the part where I said that's the explanation their reps are giving?

There were a few reasons given. But don't let that stop you from seeing only what you want to see.

I'm only stating that the debt being increased 2.7 trillion has more gravity on the downgrade than partisan politics in the house of representatives.

SnP - "The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics."

[GreecePwns]

Okay the direct quote from the S&P was "because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act."

I believe Woodruff linked that article for the quote (which is bolded there), not the article itself.

[Ray Rider]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

...by paying one credit card with a new credit card, which is not really paying anything at all. Yes it solves the short-term problem of default; but it does nothing to solve the real problem at hand, which is the debt and deficit.

We Canadians went through something similar in 1992 when Canada was downgraded from triple-A status. We had to massively reign in spending, balance the books, and only regained the triple-A rating in 2002. Maybe this recent downgrade of the US will be a wake-up call for your country too.

[Night Strike]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

No, it's not. The debt ceiling is about giving politicians a blank check to spend more money. We take in plenty of money per month to pay the interest on our debt, Social Security checks, veteran/military pay, and I believe Medicare. We have plenty of money to pay for the things we already owe. It's just that the politicians want to keep spending money we don't have for more entitlements and political bribes, which is why we're in our current debt situation. And, in case you missed it, it was Obama threatening to cut off payments and go into default without a debt ceiling deal, not the Republicans.

[greenoaks]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

...by paying one credit card with a new credit card, which is not really paying anything at all. Yes it solves the short-term problem of default; but it does nothing to solve the real problem at hand, which is the debt and deficit.

We Canadians went through something similar in 1992 when Canada was downgraded from triple-A status. We had to massively reign in spending, balance the books, and only regained the triple-A rating in 2002. Maybe this recent downgrade of the US will be a wake-up call for your country too.

we had something similar in australia with the prime minister at the time famously saying this is the recession we had to have and calling us a banana republic.

they reigned in spending, wages growth, removed subsidies & broadened the tax base. we have now had 21 years of economic growth and have very little public debt.

our politicians at state and national levels are focused on keeping our AAA ratings.

[Night Strike]

I am talking about new borrowing for new spending.

NOPE, the debt ceiling is about paying things already owed.

...by paying one credit card with a new credit card, which is not really paying anything at all. Yes it solves the short-term problem of default; but it does nothing to solve the real problem at hand, which is the debt and deficit.

We Canadians went through something similar in 1992 when Canada was downgraded from triple-A status. We had to massively reign in spending, balance the books, and only regained the triple-A rating in 2002. Maybe this recent downgrade of the US will be a wake-up call for your country too.

we had something similar in australia with the prime minister at the time famously saying this is the recession we had to have and calling us a banana republic.

they reigned in spending, wages growth, removed subsidies & broadened the tax base. we have now had 21 years of economic growth and have very little public debt.

our politicians at state and national levels are focused on keeping our AAA ratings.

Unfortunately, too many of the politicians in the US decided to immediately blame S&P for downgrading instead of looking at their own policies and beliefs. It's why there will have to be drastic changes in Washington before the US even has a prayer of a chance.

[greenoaks]

Unfortunately, too many of the politicians in the US decided to immediately blame S&P for downgrading instead of looking at their own policies and beliefs. It's why there will have to be drastic changes in Washington before the US even has a prayer of a chance.

i noticed that.

we had a change of government who were able to blame the previous one of economic mismanagement. they did it so well that it has been burnt into the minds of every politician. budgets MUST balance over the economic cycle.

we currently run a deficit but the public is well aware we will return to surplus next year with debts acrued paid off as soon as possible. any material change to the timetable is announced much like a public company does for the stock exchange.

these are from the australian government's budget website

Chart: Budget balances of Australia and the G7, 2009‑2015

this suggests most G7 nations are getting their act together but the US & Italy are flat-lining.

Chart: Government net debt for Australia and the G7 (2010‑2015)

this one indicates to me it is not the size of US debt that is a problem as it is comparable to other nations, it is the rate it is growing that will be a problem.

[Fruitcake]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

[Timminz]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

Pffft... What does he know, anyway.

[greenoaks]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

nobody has told america how much debt it has to shed.

S&P have merely pointed out what they would need to do to maintain a AAA rating. it is americas choice whether or not they wish to strive for that rating.

[Fruitcake]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

nobody has told america how much debt it has to shed.

S&P have merely pointed out what they would need to do to maintain a AAA rating. it is americas choice whether or not they wish to strive for that rating.

You should clarify that to "S&P have merely pointed out what they would need to do to maintain a AAA rating with S&P" The choice is then whether you actually listen to what S&P have to say.

[PLAYER57832]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

But isn't that the point. Many in congress were vocal in saying they were willing to let our debts go unpaid if the rest did not meet their demands?

(seriously asking you)

[saxitoxin]

S&P downgrades Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac, planning to start downgrading states next (*cough* California *cough*) ...

Standard & Poor’s on Monday cut the triple A credit rating of government-backed mortgage financiers Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac following a similar downgrade of the US government on Friday. S&P is also expected to downgrade some municipalities and states.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/926bc7e6 ... z1UT20tVg1

Financial Times says that France is next in line ...

It is hard to imagine that, having downgraded the US, S&P will not follow suit on at least one of the other members of the dwindling club of sovereign AAAs. Of course, it’s worth pointing out here that S&P affirmed France’s rating over the weekend and there was a very specific reason for the USAA+ downgrade — the dysfunctional political system. However, the figures on French GDP/debt speak for themselves, particularly in light of an extra eurozone bailout contributions.

[Woodruff]

Why S&P downgraded us: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Mainst ... 6-861.html

Nice opinion page. Thom Hartmann? Why don't you just link to Krugzy-man or Obama himself?

In typical Phatscotty fashion, he wants to try to tear down the writer instead of actually paying attention to what the writer is saying. You even go so far as to only call it an "opinion page" when clearly Hartmann has the facts of the S&P's statement correct.

[Phatscotty]

Okay the direct quote from the S&P was "because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act."

Wait a second. Is there anything to say, or even question, the current state of the economy, and how raising revenue will affect the economy and jobs?

and this is a quote from SnP.

SnP - "The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics."

The quote you are clinging onto is a purely political quote. At a time like this, with an issue as big and important as this, why in thee blue hell are you trying to make it ever more political??????????

The bottom line is the recent debt ceiling deal didn't do enough to stave off a downgrade.

[Phatscotty]

I prefer to listen to the likes of Warren Buffet than the likes of S&P

'Pardon me for asking, but who gave Standard & Poor’s the authority to tell America how much debt it has to shed, and how ?

If we pay our bills, we’re a good credit risk. If we don’t, or aren’t likely to, we’re a bad credit risk. When, how, and by how much we bring down the long term debt - or, more accurately, the ratio of debt to GDP - is none of S&P’s business'.

But isn't that the point. Many in congress were vocal in saying they were willing to let our debts go unpaid if the rest did not meet their demands?

(seriously asking you)

What is the point, is the reality that we need to borrow money to pay those bills, which is not very credit-worthy, if you ask me or any rating house

[thegreekdog]

I think Fruitcake's point is - who cares what S&P says?

In related news, Michael Moore suggested that President Obama have the officers of S&P arrested. This confirms my theory that liberals are pro-police state (typed sort of tongue in cheek).

[Phatscotty]

I hear what cake is saying, however, it doesn't matter if they have the power or the right or even the evidence to downgrade us or not. They did, and the reactions to that are the new reality. Obama's response of shooting the messenger and dismissing the message confirms for me he still doesn't get it.

Yes it's bullshit, and yes this bullshit is happening to us. The Dow cares, the sheeple care, and there are enough sheeple that it doesn't matter, the Overton Window has been moved, whether they are right or wrong. We are being steered into financial/debt hyperinflation.

Gold $1,700.00+ has to tell you something.

[Night Strike]

America's AAA rating survived the Great Depression but could not survive an ever-growing but currently at $14.5 trillion and 2.5 years of the Obama administration. Maybe that will put things into perspective.

[PLAYER57832]

I think Fruitcake's point is - who cares what S&P says?

In related news, Michael Moore suggested that President Obama have the officers of S&P arrested. This confirms my theory that liberals are pro-police state (typed sort of tongue in cheek).

Yeah.. still waiting for Fruitcake, but that could well be correct.

I only just learned that the downgrade was just for one of the 3 big rating agencies. Apparently the other ones are holding off, depending on decisions made. The S & P DID make their decision as much on politics as economics.

On another front, one thing I predicted is happening. Stocks are dropping to what is likely an unreasonable level. No doubt folks with money will be swooping up the bargains and making a killing. Others will simply be moving over to gold. Suspect gold will be over-priced for a while.

[Night Strike]

On another front, one thing I predicted is happening. Stocks are dropping to what is likely an unreasonable level. No doubt folks with money will be swooping up the bargains and making a killing. Others will simply be moving over to gold. Suspect gold will be over-priced for a while.

Or they already made bank. I was needing a place to post this article, so here seems as good of a place as any.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/so-who- ... downgrade/

[Neoteny]

America's AAA rating survived the Great Depression but could not survive an ever-growing but currently at $14.5 trillion and 2.5 years of the Obama administration. Maybe that will put things into perspective.

The perspective that credit ratings for countries with sovereignty over their currencies are useless or that liberals are satan-worshipers? I can never tell with you.

[Woodruff]

Okay the direct quote from the S&P was "because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act."

Wait a second. Is there anything to say, or even question, the current state of the economy, and how raising revenue will affect the economy and jobs?

and this is a quote from SnP.

SnP - "The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics."

The quote you are clinging onto is a purely political quote. At a time like this, with an issue as big and important as this, why in thee blue hell are you trying to make it ever more political??????????

The bottom line is the recent debt ceiling deal didn't do enough to stave off a downgrade.

Your world-view is assinine. When it's anti-Republicans, it's "a purely political quote". When it's anti-Obama, it's "just the facts".

[Woodruff]

In related news, Michael Moore suggested that President Obama have the officers of S&P arrested.

Did he really? <laughing> What a freaking moron.

[Woodruff]

America's AAA rating survived the Great Depression but could not survive an ever-growing but currently at $14.5 trillion and 2.5 years of the Obama administration. Maybe that will put things into perspective.

The perspective that credit ratings for countries with sovereignty over their currencies are useless or that liberals are satan-worshipers? I can never tell with you.

The latter is always the safe bet.