[CC2] Semi Finals KoRT vs EMPIRE [37-23][Final] KORT WINS !

[Foxglove]

GROUP HUG.

[jj3044]

GROUP HUG.

With you, Foxxy? Anytime!

[The Voice]

And we turned hive around Woohoo!

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

To your credit you guys put yourself in a position to take advantage if our dice turned as cold as they did. To think we were up like 70 terts at one point and you come back...

please dont tell me about dice, in first 2 turns of the game we got -24 dice in 2 opening attacking turns. there were at least 35 times clicked "attack" in those turns, every time with 3v2 dice or 3v1 dice. and outcome was -24. If anyone need to regret for terrible dice, that are we as those dice gave you advantage which we needed 7 rounds to catch. and btw, your shity dice from last turn have anyway happened when the game was already decided (you should not it with your huge experience on the map), so even if you got mediocre or great dice on your turn, we would still have huge advantage and win.

if you want some plain fact (not subjective opinion like dice is) here it is:
2011-10-25 13:17:21 - josko.ri [team]: 171-245 (total troop count after my turn, round 4)

on that time, when your team had at least +74 troops (number counted with assuming you had all 1's in fog), total drop count in upcoming round was 42-39 in our favor.

I am sorry that I need to tell this (but your public dice comment provoked it) but I think if a team cannot manage to have more than -3 drop in a round with +74 troops on the table, says enough about how important role dice had and how important role strategy had.

Just a thought, but if you were that far down, in order to recover you would need to have incredible dice, and Empire to have terrible dice. Not just this last round when it was already over, but throughout those 7 rounds you were catching up. That is a logical statement based solely on the facts. Thanks for trying though

Is it just a thought, or based on facts? I fail to find one fact in your argument. Could you point me to it?

It's been such a pleasant challenge. Do we have to resort to dice bitching now?

Consider this Malevolous's formal apology for not spending every waking moment keeping track of dice rolls. By the way, Josko, I love how devoted you are to that stuff, so the above statement was not made to offend you. Or anyone.

[drunkmonkey]

I apologize if I misread things too. Sometimes when the monkey's on the bottle, he gets a little out of control.

[malevolous]

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

To your credit you guys put yourself in a position to take advantage if our dice turned as cold as they did. To think we were up like 70 terts at one point and you come back...

please dont tell me about dice, in first 2 turns of the game we got -24 dice in 2 opening attacking turns. there were at least 35 times clicked "attack" in those turns, every time with 3v2 dice or 3v1 dice. and outcome was -24. If anyone need to regret for terrible dice, that are we as those dice gave you advantage which we needed 7 rounds to catch. and btw, your shity dice from last turn have anyway happened when the game was already decided (you should not it with your huge experience on the map), so even if you got mediocre or great dice on your turn, we would still have huge advantage and win.

if you want some plain fact (not subjective opinion like dice is) here it is:
2011-10-25 13:17:21 - josko.ri [team]: 171-245 (total troop count after my turn, round 4)

on that time, when your team had at least +74 troops (number counted with assuming you had all 1's in fog), total drop count in upcoming round was 42-39 in our favor.

I am sorry that I need to tell this (but your public dice comment provoked it) but I think if a team cannot manage to have more than -3 drop in a round with +74 troops on the table, says enough about how important role dice had and how important role strategy had.

Just a thought, but if you were that far down, in order to recover you would need to have incredible dice, and Empire to have terrible dice. Not just this last round when it was already over, but throughout those 7 rounds you were catching up. That is a logical statement based solely on the facts. Thanks for trying though

Is it just a thought, or based on facts? I fail to find one fact in your argument. Could you point me to it?

It's been such a pleasant challenge. Do we have to resort to dice bitching now?

Consider this Malevolous's formal apology for not spending every waking moment keeping track of dice rolls. By the way, Josko, I love how devoted you are to that stuff, so the above statement was not made to offend you. Or anyone.

Thanks TV, I wasn't trying to offend anyone. It was just pretty obvious from the facts josko provided, and what I've read on our forums, that dice played a pretty big role in the turn around. I also find it interesting how closely he tracks it, and find it surprising how quickly he jumps on someone claiming that, in a game determined by dice, dice might have allowed a turn around. If it was a whole war being laid on dice, that would be insulting. One or two games? That's not only possible, but should be expected.

[josko.ri]

Woah woah woah there. Josko, I complimented your team in the statement, but you completely overlooked it and only saw me complaining about the dice.

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

If only your post is not completely lie statement (in 10 rounds, you had 14 drop only once, all other rounds were 12 or 13, and only once you took 4 singles, every other round you took more than 4) then maybe I would not react, but you both complain about dice with qoute above (in the game where your team had much better dice when you consider it as a whole) and do it with writing completely wrong dice facts.

@TV and malevolous... I am tracking drop per round and troop count to help manage strategy because strategy used is much different if we are ahead in game or if opponents are ahead so I have to know real situation. It really is not huge time spending to count every 8 turns number of drop per team from last round from BOB menu, and it helps a lot in have feeling who has advantage in the game, which determines type of strategy used.

I do not find malevolous statement offending at all (only jj's statement I found offensive+lie), I only see logical fail in malevolous statement. he said that +8 drop can be outplayed only by better dice, which is logical fail. for example, everyone know classic map. team A has 8 drop, and they take 4 south america regions plus 4 australia regions. team B has 11 drop, and they take 11 regions in asia, failing to take whole continent by 1 region. next turn who will have advantage, team A or team B? important to see, team A had better dice (they rolled 11-0 in their turn, and team B rolled 8-0) but team B took regions which are important, while team A took unimportant regions. just an example, how drop per round can go to favor of one team, but not only with great dice. something like that happened in hive. grey with 70 regions never held a bonus. pink with 80 regions held +1 bonus in average (so his 77 regions are useless). from the other side, blue with 50 regions had constant +2 bonus, and even yellow sometimes had +2 bonus with only 17 regions. so hive situation is really similar like classic map example... grey have huge amount of regions, but his regions are in asia, and yellow has low regions, but his regions are south america and australia bonuses held.

from round 2, we own more bonuses (with about 60 regions down). from the beginning of the game, our regions are better spreaded among our players (in key turns, they had 70,80,14,14 regions per player and we had 50,40,21,17 in average). so with about 50-70 region deficit, we had both bigger region bonus and more bonuses held. underlined sentence has apsolutely nothing to do with dice, and this sentence is main reason for our turnover.

[malevolous]

So you know what to attack, this is the logical "formula" I'm using:
For A, either B or C
A
Not B
Therefore C
A is a shift in relative troop count, B is deploy advantage equal to A, C is dice contributing.

[malevolous]

Woah woah woah there. Josko, I complimented your team in the statement, but you completely overlooked it and only saw me complaining about the dice.

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

If only your post is not completely lie statement (in 10 rounds, you had 14 drop only once, all other rounds were 12 or 13, and only once you took 4 singles, every other round you took more than 4) then maybe I would not react, but you both complain about dice with qoute above (in the game where your team had much better dice when you consider it as a whole) and do it with writing completely wrong dice facts.

@TV and malevolous... I am tracking drop per round and troop count to help manage strategy because strategy used is much different if we are ahead in game or if opponents are ahead so I have to know real situation. It really is not huge time spending to count every 8 turns number of drop per team from last round from BOB menu, and it helps a lot in have feeling who has advantage in the game, which determines type of strategy used.

I do not find malevolous statement offending at all (only jj's statement I found offensive+lie), I only see logical fail in malevolous statement. he said that +8 drop can be outplayed only by better dice, which is logical fail. for example, everyone know classic map. team A has 8 drop, and they take 4 south america regions plus 4 australia regions. team B has 11 drop, and they take 11 regions in asia, failing to take whole continent by 1 region. next turn who will have advantage, team A or team B? important to see, team A had better dice (they rolled 11-0 in their turn, and team B rolled 8-0) but team B took regions which are important, while team A took unimportant regions. just an example, how drop per round can go to favor of one team, but not only with great dice. something like that happened in hive. grey with 70 regions never held a bonus. pink with 80 regions held +1 bonus in average (so his 77 regions are useless). from the other side, blue with 50 regions had constant +2 bonus, and even yellow sometimes had +2 bonus with only 17 regions. so hive situation is really similar like classic map example... grey have huge amount of regions, but his regions are in asia, and yellow has low regions, but his regions are south america and australia bonuses held.

from round 2, we own more bonuses (with about 60 regions down). from the beginning of the game, our regions are better spreaded among our players (in key turns, they had 70,80,14,14 regions per player and we had 50,40,21,17 in average). so with about 50-70 region deficit, we had both bigger region bonus and more bonuses held. underlined sentence has apsolutely nothing to do with dice, and this sentence is main reason for our turnover.

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy. I know you guys played well, but without some help from the dice, you not only would still have been down 36 troops right now, but there is a good chance your extra bonuses would fall as superior numbers were brought against them, and all your arguments would be moot. I'm sorry, but you denying uneven dice in this case not only goes against your own statistics, but sounds incredibly arrogant as EVERYONE in CC has dice help them at times, and you seem to be claiming you are above a built in system inherent in this site. Get off your high horse and reconcile with yourself that dice helped you.

[drunkmonkey]

Every game that was won on either side required some help from the dice. Can we move on now?

[malevolous]

Certainly, I just don't like josko calling my logic failed when his logic fails to account for what happened. I'm fine from a CC standpoint, as I have already stated I know dice are a factor, but from a logical standpoint, it feels like josko insists on the equivalent of playing "stop hitting yourself." Frustrating, illogical, and immature.

[drunkmonkey]

Certainly, I just don't like josko calling my logic failed when his logic fails to account for what happened. I'm fine from a CC standpoint, as I have already stated I know dice are a factor, but from a logical standpoint, it feels like josko insists on the equivalent of playing "stop hitting yourself." Frustrating, illogical, and immature.

Well, I think that's direct result of this:

And we turned hive around Woohoo!

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

To your credit you guys put yourself in a position to take advantage if our dice turned as cold as they did. To think we were up like 70 terts at one point and you come back...

I know it wasn't meant as "Our dice went cold, and that's the only reason you won", but you can see how it could be read that way. I think josko got defensive to that comment, and it steamrolled from there. The discussion has now reached a point neither side intended to get to.

[The Voice]

Yup, thank you drunkmonkey. Let us move on. We're both great clans, so it has to come down to luck some of the time. And when it didn't, it didn't. Josko, I'm sorry if the facts were misrepresented. We humans are prone to exaggeration, and I know JJ well enough to say he wasn't trying to lie when he made that statement, just venting. And I suppose you're right. Once you have a system down, it probably doesn't take much time at all.

I wish you all the best in your upcoming battle. I'll be rooting for you guys to win it all.

[Foxglove]

Ok, my turn again: GROUP HUG (especially jj).

[JaneAusten]

Ok, my turn again: GROUP HUG (especially jj).

Ditto. =)

[ljex]

And we turned hive around Woohoo!

Yeah, very frustrating game. Deploy 14 and only take 4 singles every rd. ::sigh::

To your credit you guys put yourself in a position to take advantage if our dice turned as cold as they did. To think we were up like 70 terts at one point and you come back...

please dont tell me about dice, in first 2 turns of the game we got -24 dice in 2 opening attacking turns. there were at least 35 times clicked "attack" in those turns, every time with 3v2 dice or 3v1 dice. and outcome was -24. If anyone need to regret for terrible dice, that are we as those dice gave you advantage which we needed 7 rounds to catch. and btw, your shity dice from last turn have anyway happened when the game was already decided (you should not it with your huge experience on the map), so even if you got mediocre or great dice on your turn, we would still have huge advantage and win.

if you want some plain fact (not subjective opinion like dice is) here it is:
2011-10-25 13:17:21 - josko.ri [team]: 171-245 (total troop count after my turn, round 4)

on that time, when your team had at least +74 troops (number counted with assuming you had all 1's in fog), total drop count in upcoming round was 42-39 in our favor.

I am sorry that I need to tell this (but your public dice comment provoked it) but I think if a team cannot manage to have more than -3 drop in a round with +74 troops on the table, says enough about how important role dice had and how important role strategy had.

here i thought josko had finally turned over a new leaf and left comments like this in the past...guess not. Josko dice are part of the game and we will live with the loss, but it is true either way that dice let you back in the game, sure they put us ahead but that is irrelevant as the statement made by your clan was that the game was turned around...which happened largely because of dice. It was a good game, but dont get on your high horse and say it was all skill like you so typically do. Yes we had a huge troop lead, but mostly on me and JJ in our region counts which on that map means nothing over 36...dice do play a role at that point when each of us have 75 regions but can only take 3 singles a turn...which happened a bunch. You can say all skill but the fact remains that our dice had to suck for you to come back...and they did. Im not saying you didnt play great, none of us are, your plays were great...but our dice also sucked and both of those had to happen for you to come back.

[josko.ri]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

[jj3044]

Ok, my turn again: GROUP HUG (especially jj).

Ditto. =)

::hugs back::

...What's that smell?

Lets all end it right here, right now. Both clans. My "slight exaggeration for effect" must be lost on some people. Sorry I mis-represented the facts by saying that I deployed 14 "every round" when the actual numbers ranged between 12 and 14. There, you have my apology, lets move on.

[ljex]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

You do realize there are these things called attackers dice, which we got more of in the beginning because of going first in an unlimited game right? Just because you have gotten more troops over the course of the game does not mean you should have more troops than us, josko for someone so smart you fail to see the extremely simple flaws in your logic on a rather consistent basis.

[josko.ri]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

You do realize there are these things called attackers dice, which we got more of in the beginning because of going first in an unlimited game right? Just because you have gotten more troops over the course of the game does not mean you should have more troops than us, josko for someone so smart you fail to see the extremely simple flaws in your logic on a rather consistent basis.

Yes I know, so our 25 drop should give us more troops advantage than 25, with adding attacker advantage to these 25 drop no? how then we have only plus 9? doesnt that mean your good luck "gifted" you some extra troops? with "luck" I consider first turn also and attacker advantage gotten by going first, so if you say you get some extra troops by using first turn advantage, that is also good luck for empire, no?

[ljex]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

You do realize there are these things called attackers dice, which we got more of in the beginning because of going first in an unlimited game right? Just because you have gotten more troops over the course of the game does not mean you should have more troops than us, josko for someone so smart you fail to see the extremely simple flaws in your logic on a rather consistent basis.

Yes I know, so our 25 drop should give us more troops advantage than 25, with adding attacker advantage to these 25 drop no? how then we have only plus 9? doesnt that mean your good luck "gifted" you some extra troops? with "luck" I consider first turn also and attacker advantage gotten by going first, so if you say you get some extra troops by using first turn advantage, that is also good luck for empire, no?

you can say that...but we each got to start in one of the hive games...making it not really luck for either side in terms of first turn on a map where first turn is a pretty big advantage. Anyway if you want to go into luck there are plenty of games where luck played a role in the game for korts advantage but you have not seen me put one gripe about any of them here. You know you needed to get lucky to get back into hive...for fucks sake you yourselves had it listed as an empire advantage and i think we all (you included) expected it to become a emprire win. That is the reference point jj was using when he said that you guys got lucky to come back into the game...which everyone in it knows to be true. Are we complaining...no i wouldnt say so and i wouldnt say that we dont think you played a great game strategy wise we are just saying dice kinda screwed us more as an excuse for us losing than trying to take the win away from you. I would also say that we lost focus in that game which brought about the loss as well, but still dice were a factor and will continue to be.

Oh and seriously you cant complain about first turn being lucky if you are going to send the map/setting to us knowing full well how huge of advantage it is in unlimited games, that would be like us sending city mogul dubs to you and then saying, wow you guys are so lucky to win this one if you got first turn advantage and won. I think everyone in the clan community would see us in the wrong if we did that, you knew the risk of sending such a map/settings so dont complain about the luck associated with them.

[jj3044]

I've asked nicely. Now I am not.

Luke, stop posting about it. Josko, I would recommend we let this end nicely, and here, so stop posting.

[malevolous]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

Lol, Josko, you keep misdirecting here. The argument is that the turn around was allowed by dice. The turn around started at round 4, so please focus on the scope of the argument if you are going to participate. From round 4, you started down 74+ troops, and picked up +33 troops. this leaves 41 troops unaccounted for by your argument. I, and my clan mates, are merely stating the obvious: dice are the only explanation for the remainder of the comeback. Further, if the dice had been rounded, the bonuses you gained would have been broken by the larger armies which instead fizzled. If they hadn't fizzled, your bonuses would be gone and your argument as well. Thus your argument indirectly relied on dice to preserve those bonuses. Everyone here, except you, understands that dice are a huge part of the game. Why you refuse to see such a logically apparent fact both frustrates and amuses me. If you want to respond to the argument at hand, and not divert it to random asides, go ahead. If you try to go on a tangent, it will only make you appear the fool, so please don't.

[Leehar]

I think it would be plain better if each side also avoided trying to have the last word?

I do see Empire's point on how dice inconvenienced them in the games, but I also remember talking to josko about some strategic advantages he feels he was able to implement that was also able to bring them significantly back into the game.
Remember, this is the same Josko who is still unbeaten in Hive team games I think, with both first and second starts, and if Foed could confirm, he was able to pull of a significant comeback against them as well on this selfsame Hive, which does lend significant backing to his claims.

However, that is neither here nor there. We're reaching the end of a war between 2 extremely skilled clans, who probably also play in their own respective ways as well. Neither can be deemed wrong, and we don't really want this to devolve into the type of argumentative discussions that can be so damaging to clan relations, so it is probably best to leave this here, and perhaps just move on to something far less confrontational like predictions on remaining games.

Kort should also do well to remember that as the winning team they are more susceptible to the clan medals punishment, so no need to rise to any provocation if thats what they deem certain things to be.

[josko.ri]

From a previous post of yours, the bonuses account for a net gain of 38 troops by KoRT, so that does not logically account for how a 74 troop advantage could turn into such a huge deficit. I restate that if you evidence doesn't account for all the troops lost, there must be another factor determining the lopsidedness. In the case of CC, only one other factor besides deploy will cause an imbalance in the troop count. So, just to be even with Empire, or in other words, to overcome the remaining 36 troop deficit, the only factor remaining is dice. The fact that the deficit is even more in your favor now implies an even greater disparity in the dice. In other words, my logic is sound and valid. If you want to attack the validity of my argument, you will be hard pressed unless you turn to claiming an extreme such as Empire suicided massive stacks of their troops into their own troops, or some such rubbish, and to attack the soundness, you would have to provide another explanation for at least 36 troops, as I am here attacking the soundness of your argument that an advantage in deploy accounts for the discrepancy.

ok, another fact, I hope it will prove who had better dice. in moment of writing this post, KORT deployed 25 more troops in whole game than Empire did. troop count is 201 (kort) vs 102+90 unknown region empire. let s say empire has al 1's in fog which means they have 192 troops. so, until now KORT had +25 drop and right now have only +9 troops total. how is this possible by your logic, if dice were in KORT favor? wouldn't our troops advantage be more than +25 (due to more drop+attacker advantage gotten by that drop) if dice really were in KORT favor in the game, like Empire guys stated?

if one team deployed 25 more, and have only 9 more troops, who was luckier?

Lol, Josko, you keep misdirecting here. The argument is that the turn around was allowed by dice. The turn around started at round 4, so please focus on the scope of the argument if you are going to participate. From round 4, you started down 74+ troops, and picked up +33 troops. this leaves 41 troops unaccounted for by your argument. I, and my clan mates, are merely stating the obvious: dice are the only explanation for the remainder of the comeback. Further, if the dice had been rounded, the bonuses you gained would have been broken by the larger armies which instead fizzled. If they hadn't fizzled, your bonuses would be gone and your argument as well. Thus your argument indirectly relied on dice to preserve those bonuses. Everyone here, except you, understands that dice are a huge part of the game. Why you refuse to see such a logically apparent fact both frustrates and amuses me. If you want to respond to the argument at hand, and not divert it to random asides, go ahead. If you try to go on a tangent, it will only make you appear the fool, so please don't.

if youir point was prove that KORT was lucky after round 4, then yes you are right, we rolled better than Empire. but game is made both by first 3 rounds and 4+ rounds.
facts are:

empire luckier rounds 1-3
kort luckier rounds 4+

whole game , Empire luckier (because +25 drop for KORT lead to only +9 troop advantage)

because of underlined statement I was especially offended by dice complaining. if anyone needed to complain about luck, that was my team when we had -74. but we showed class and did not make it to dice bitching fest, even when there existed reason for it in opening rounds.
if someone from world 21 or ww2 europe triples team for example complained about dice/luck that would be much more correct because there my team really got great dice, but complaining about dice in game where you had better total luck is really not needed.

[jackal31]

this is looking more and more like a b***** slapping fight. I guess it doesnt matter how well either clan did, what matters is who is going to get slapped last.