Is there a god?

[Begbie]

Refer to the late great Hitch. The bottom line, beautifully rendered......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogak5ZVxLyM

[zimmah]

god has no beginning and no end. he always was and always will be.

What does this mean in practice?

Also, how do you know this to be true? What observations can you make that support this statement?

that is where faith kicks in.

[zimmah]

god isn't a physical being in the first place, he's a spirit, a being of dynamic energy.

How does this energy manifest itself? Can it be measured or observed in any way?

not sure, probably not, but maybe yes. i have no information on that.

also, we humans are probably not even capable of seeing god without dying, he's far to divine for us mere humans.

Oh. Well, isn't that convenient.

Which god is the real one? Is it the Christian god, or Hindu god, or Allah?

How do I know which god to follow, which religious doctrine I should organize my life around?

all of them are real, but only one of them is telling the truth and is the one who created all. yes, there's multiple gods, as our creator calls lower angels gods too sometimes, and even idols are sometimes referred to as gods. the difference s, those gods have limited power, while the true god doesn't. however some of those fallen angels pretend they are the true god, and manifest themself as for example allah and other powerful beings. yes, they're still far more powerful then any human, but nothing compared to our creator. might as well have faith in the sun if you follow one of those fallen angels, it's also quite powerful compared to human and it also does a lot of good for us, but it did not create us, and the sun also is just another creation of god.

i don't mean that in an offensive way, but we humans are designed to 'need' god,

What do you base this claim on?

this discussion alone proves we need guidance, otherwise you wouldn't care to discuss about god being real or not. the fact that you, and everyone else, at some point even thought about the possibility of there being a god proves that deep there you know the answer. there's not a single person alive who never at some point in there life asked themself the question: "is there a god?". you're probably going to ask me to back this statement up, you know i can't, but you know i'm not bullshitting either.

also i'd like to see what science ever proved the bible wrong, as you said it did multiple times. i'm quite curious what you mean by that.

Exodus never happened as described in the bible. The Israeli were never enslaved as a nation by the Egyptians. There has never been a global flood. Rabbits are not ruminants.[/quote]

and i'm not sure what you mean about exodus and even how science would know exactly what happened roughly 3000~4000 years ago

the Hebrew phrase for ‘chew the cud’ simply means ‘raising up what has been swallowed’, rabbits and hares practise refection, which is essentially the same principle as rumination, and does indeed ‘raise up what has been swallowed’.

The israeli were indeed never enslaved by the Egyptians, because back then they were called hebrews, and there's archeological evidence that they not only were enslaved, but also were making stones for them.

i don't have any ancient egyptians tomes here and i don't read ancient egypt, but i'm quite sure there is even evidence to be found in ancient egyptian writings.

and although there is no evidence of a global flood, there's also no evidence against it, and you know what's funny? all around the world people tell stories about a global flood, people that spoke languages that have never been translated until recently, incapable of conversing in any other language (so they never read a bible or never got told of stories in the bible) and among the first things they talked about was about a global flood, this story has been passed on from generation to generation. this happened all around the world, now it's also important to note that the flood happened relatively shortly before the events at the tower of babel occurred (nimrod who wanted to build a huge tower, and god prevented that by making everyone start speaking a different language so they could not co-operate anymore and people spread out across the planet). this chain of events would explain why all over the world people know the story of the global flood, but they do not know about the bible and other stories (not even christmass and such are known all over the world, but this specifc story is known by every single culture even natives).

in fact, about 500 years ago, when the spanish landed in Central America, a native chief called Nicarao asked this question as one of the first questions: "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed
all men and animals?" now how could that guy ever have a bible? impossable, right? so then, how did he come up with that question? it must have been told him by his ancestors, and why would his ancestors tell him? because it happened. and if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

[Symmetry]

in fact, about 500 years ago, when the spanish landed in Central America, a native chief called Nicarao asked this question as one of the first questions: "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?" now how could that guy ever have a bible? impossable, right? so then, how did he come up with that question? it must have been told him by his ancestors, and why would his ancestors tell him? because it happened. and if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

Huh, when I run that exact quote through google "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?", I can't find any results prior to 2011.

Where did you get it from? Did you see it within the last year? It looks a bit like someone was conning you. Of course, it could be a translation error, or a problem with my search. Still, it'd be interesting to know where you got this information from.

[Haggis_McMutton]

all of them are real, but only one of them is telling the truth and is the one who created all. yes, there's multiple gods, as our creator calls lower angels gods too sometimes, and even idols are sometimes referred to as gods. the difference s, those gods have limited power, while the true god doesn't. however some of those fallen angels pretend they are the true god, and manifest themself as for example allah and other powerful beings. yes, they're still far more powerful then any human, but nothing compared to our creator. might as well have faith in the sun if you follow one of those fallen angels, it's also quite powerful compared to human and it also does a lot of good for us, but it did not create us, and the sun also is just another creation of god.

So you're a polytheist really?
Cool.

[zimmah]

all of them are real, but only one of them is telling the truth and is the one who created all. yes, there's multiple gods, as our creator calls lower angels gods too sometimes, and even idols are sometimes referred to as gods. the difference s, those gods have limited power, while the true god doesn't. however some of those fallen angels pretend they are the true god, and manifest themself as for example allah and other powerful beings. yes, they're still far more powerful then any human, but nothing compared to our creator. might as well have faith in the sun if you follow one of those fallen angels, it's also quite powerful compared to human and it also does a lot of good for us, but it did not create us, and the sun also is just another creation of god.

So you're a polytheist really?
Cool.

if by polytheist you mean i believe in the existence of multiple gods, yes. however i only obey one. or at least, try to, i'm only human, so i can't say i perfectly do everything right.

[zimmah]

in fact, about 500 years ago, when the spanish landed in Central America, a native chief called Nicarao asked this question as one of the first questions: "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?" now how could that guy ever have a bible? impossable, right? so then, how did he come up with that question? it must have been told him by his ancestors, and why would his ancestors tell him? because it happened. and if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

Huh, when I run that exact quote through google "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?", I can't find any results prior to 2011.

Where did you get it from? Did you see it within the last year? It looks a bit like someone was conning you. Of course, it could be a translation error, or a problem with my search. Still, it'd be interesting to know where you got this information from.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

it's also funny that the chinese kanji for boat is actually a combination of the chinese kanji for 8 and the kanji for vessel and mouth (or person). note how the arch of noah had 8 people in it. source: http://www.bibleprobe.com/chinese.htm

http://www.icr.org/article/why-does-nea ... ion-globa/ (written by John D. Morris, Ph.D.)

[Baron Von PWN]

Let me summarise this thread for everyone.

No
Yes
No
Yes
No
YEs
NO
YES
NO
YES
maybe...
Maybe not!
Maybe!
Maybe not!
no
Yes
No
YEs ect.

[zimmah]

Let me summarise this thread for everyone.

No
Yes
No
Yes
No
YEs
NO
YES
NO
YES
maybe...
Maybe not!
Maybe!
Maybe not!
no
Yes
No
YEs ect.

win
great summary

[Woodruff]

if my statements are so ridiculous, shouldn't they be easy to disprove?

That particular statement was so ridiculous as to be laughable. Easy to disprove? Just looking at mere definitions disproves it, so it shouldn't be necessary for anyone to bother to do so. For heavens sake, if you believe that religion falls under the umbrella of science, I don't even know where to begin showing you where you're wrong because you're just SO UTTERLY WRONG.

k then post the definitions and show me where they contradict each other.

your reluctance to make any effort at disproving my statement shows that you don't really know what you're talking about.

No seriously...please tell me you're joking. Because if you're not, I do believe you're really the only one here who doesn't think you are.

But just to play along with your inanity:

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.

Science is the systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through experimentation and observation of those experiments.

Now...you don't see how these two items ARE NOTHING LIKE ONE ANOTHER? Under the umbrella of science, indeed!

[BigBallinStalin]

When the Christians came to China, they had to fit Christian concepts into Chinese, thus creating some new characters by meshing together some old ones.

The Buddhists had the same problem when they came over...

so if you're pointing to Chinese characters made by Christians to show that the Chinese (pre-Christian days) had some connection to the Bible...

[Woodruff]

Your method for responding to my points all at the end of the post have caused me to lose the point of what you're talking about in some places here. Is there ANY CHANCE you could respond to each point, rather than putting all of your answers at the end? All you're doing here is confusing things, as far as I can tell. I don't believe you're doing that intentionally, because your answers have been fairly straightforward, but it is happening nonetheless. It makes following the thread exceptionally difficult and I'll probably just give up on what could be a very interesting conversation if it continues...because it's not worth the hassle.

funny how an old book, written by dozens of different writers in a timespan of hunderds of years, thousand of years before modern science, has never been disproven by any science, old documents or anything at all, and you still believe it's just a book written by random humans.

Do you believe that the universe is only approximately 6,000 years old?

no, i don't believe the universe is approximately 6000 years old, that would be stupid to believe.

I agree. And yet, you want to take a book that makes that claim (that the universe is only approximately 6,000 years old) as a book of fact. It's either a book of allegory or a book of fact. It cannot be both, unless one admits that you're just cherry-picking the parts that you WANT TO BE either allegory or fact. But since you're not the one that wrote it, you don't get to do that.

if there is a god, wouldn't you want to know him?

If there is a god that refuses to show me his physical presence, why would I want to bother knowing him? If he's not demonstrably interested, why should I be?

god does not refuse to show his physical presence, god isn't a physical being in the first place, he's a spirit, a being of dynamic energy.

If god is all-powerful as the Bible claims, then he certainly can show us his physical presence. Or are you now claiming that he is not omnipotent? This seems like an excuse to me.

also, we humans are probably not even capable of seeing god without dying, he's far to divine for us mere humans.

So you DON'T believe that god is all-powerful? Because it would be a simple thing for him to make it so that his divinity would not overpower us. This seems like an excuse to me.

but isn't being created by him reason enough to at least listen to him?

As far as I am concerned, I was not created by him (largely because I choose not to believe, and desire proof). So I guess my answer to that is obvious.

your parents earn your respect too just for the fact they are your parents, don't you agree?

No. There are some downright bastard parents in the world. Mine were pretty great, and they earn my respect because they were pretty great parents.

yet god did far more then that, he basically gave us everything we have. and he is in fact interested, why else would he sacrifice his first born to die as a human on earth, murdered as a criminal, with a corrupted lawsuit against him, if he wouldn't care for us?

Prove it.

also, we humans are nothing compared to the entire universe, and yet god himself, and all angels, including the bad ones and the devil, care for us humans. in fact, there's a war in heavens going on, just because of humans, and you think god doesn't care? you're just closing your eyes to the truth, god does care.

Prove it.

you believe in god, and there is no god -> you're still happy with your life, so noone gets hurt. you may only be disappointed that there /is no god, but at least you have a good life in your way.

I am living my life in a good way, regardless of whether a god exists or not. The presence/absence of religion has no affect on how I conduct myself.

living your life in a good way is always good, i don't doubt that you do, but with all due respect, if you don't understand the higher meaning of life, no matter how much good you do, you're basically nothing more then an animal, you eat, sleep, reproduce and seek shelter, just like all other species on earth.

I agree. That is precisely what we are. We simply happen to possess a higher ability to reason and function, but yes...you've hit it pretty head-on.

i don't mean that in an offensive way, but we humans are designed to 'need' god, unlike animals. spirituality is a concept only humans can understand, we should be grateful of that.

I certainly am not one to be offended by the truth. Spirituality is a concept that was created to control the masses. We are not designed to "need god", but rather we have been taught that we "need god". I don't believe we should be grateful for that.

3) there is a god, but you don't believe there is -> may bea very bad thing, you hurt god's feelings

Worshipping someone out of fear isn't worship. It's just fear.

i don't worship out of fear either, i worship because i love god and what he done for us, and because i want to chose his side in this divine war. there's no in between, it's either you're on gods side or on the devils side. i know what side i want to be on.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that sure seems a lot like basing your decision on "wanting to win", which I would equate to fear of losing (in this particular circumstance).

it would amaze me more if they found life suddenly appearing somewhere in the universe, without human interference. (good luck with that)

That shouldn't amaze you, for several reasons. For one, it's almost a certainty that there IS life elsewhere in the universe. Secondly, are you saying that a god would be limited to only working on Earth?

the bible doesn't speak about the existence or non-existence of extraterritorial life because it doesn't matter for us at this moment of time, the earth has enough problems already anyways.

Now you're directly contradicting yourself.

and the war that is going on in heavens is about humankind, maybe god planned to make more lifeforms in the universe, but wanted to get this battle over with before continuing his work, or maybe there are lifeforms created so far away we can't get near them with our current technology, or maybe they're in another dimension we can't (yet) reach or even notice. it doesn't matter though.

It certainly MIGHT matter. A great deal. Why excuse it away like this?

also i'd like to see what science ever proved the bible wrong, as you said it did multiple times. i'm quite curious what you mean by that.

I made no such claim that I recall. Can you point it out to me?

and god isn't 'just' a lifeform, he's a being of dynamic energy.

Prove it.

[Woodruff]

Let me summarise this thread for everyone.

No
Yes
No
Yes
No
YEs
NO
YES
NO
YES
maybe...
Maybe not!
Maybe!
Maybe not!
no
Yes
No
YEs ect.

You forgot "Religion is a science". That's GOTTA be included.

[Woodruff]

So you're a polytheist really?
Cool.

if by polytheist you mean i believe in the existence of multiple gods, yes. however i only obey one. or at least, try to, i'm only human, so i can't say i perfectly do everything right.

Oh...I must admit, I didn't see that one coming. What particular religion do you subscribe to?

[natty dread]

all of them are real, but only one of them is telling the truth and is the one who created all. yes, there's multiple gods, as our creator calls lower angels gods too sometimes, and even idols are sometimes referred to as gods. the difference s, those gods have limited power, while the true god doesn't. however some of those fallen angels pretend they are the true god, and manifest themself as for example allah and other powerful beings. yes, they're still far more powerful then any human, but nothing compared to our creator. might as well have faith in the sun if you follow one of those fallen angels, it's also quite powerful compared to human and it also does a lot of good for us, but it did not create us, and the sun also is just another creation of god.

Well. Isn't that convenient.

You know, some of those other religions say basically the same thing about your god. How do I know which religion to believe?

this discussion alone proves we need guidance, otherwise you wouldn't care to discuss about god being real or not.

In other words... "The fact that you're debating me proves that I'm right!"

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying what you're selling here.

the fact that you, and everyone else, at some point even thought about the possibility of there being a god proves that deep there you know the answer.

The fact that me or anyone else thought about the possibility of there being a god proves that the notion of there being a god is ingrained in our society, because of people who believe there is a god and want to push that belief to others.

I've never belonged to a church, and I never had any kind of religious uprising. My parents allowed me to make my own concluions about the world and believe what I want to believe. There was no indoctrination of any kind, I was allowed to believe what I wanted. Now if your "deep down" hypothesis were true, shouldn't I automatically have found your god by now?

there's not a single person alive who never at some point in there life asked themself the question: "is there a god?".

What about people who have never heard of such a thing as a god?

you're probably going to ask me to back this statement up, you know i can't, but you know i'm not bullshitting either.

Quote of the year.

Yeah, I know you can't back up that statement. I'm sure you also believe you're not bullshitting.

and i'm not sure what you mean about exodus and even how science would know exactly what happened roughly 3000~4000 years ago

It's called research. We know a lot of things about the history. Or are you saying that we can't know anything about how anything happened prior to when we were born? That's a simplistic argument. We can observe things indirectly. No one has ever seen electrons but we know they exist. I never experienced the World Wars but I know they happened. And so on.

The israeli were indeed never enslaved by the Egyptians, because back then they were called hebrews, and there's archeological evidence that they not only were enslaved, but also were making stones for them.

Come on, this is not a semantics argument.

The hebrews were never enslaved by the Egyptians, there is zero archaeological evidence of such ever happening. In fact, current evidence says that the Egyptians didn't use slaves at all in that point of time, and the pyramids were built with contracted labour.

Juan_bottom could probably tell you more about this.

i don't have any ancient egyptians tomes here and i don't read ancient egypt, but i'm quite sure there is even evidence to be found in ancient egyptian writings.

There isn't. You shouldn't be so quick to be sure about things when you haven't looked into the evidence.

and although there is no evidence of a global flood, there's also no evidence against it

There's plenty of evidence against it.

There's a good summary of that evidence here: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_flood

Main points I would make:
- There's not enough water on earth for a global flood to be possible
- The geological evidence and the fossil record don't support the idea of there ever being a global flood (except, when creationists get to "interpret" the evidence)

ow it's also important to note that the flood happened relatively shortly before the events at the tower of babel occurred (nimrod who wanted to build a huge tower, and god prevented that by making everyone start speaking a different language so they could not co-operate anymore and people spread out across the planet).

You know, there's no evidence of the tower of babel thing ever happening either.

this specifc story is known by every single culture even natives

Every single culture? Well, I'll be damned. No pun intended...

Where's the evidence for that, by the way?

if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

There's a perfectly reasonable scientific explanation for that which doesn't require a global flood.

If you think about it, I'm sure you can figure it out...

[Woodruff]

if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

These neat things called tectonic plates may have something to do with that...

[natty dread]

Sssh! No spoilers.

[Symmetry]

in fact, about 500 years ago, when the spanish landed in Central America, a native chief called Nicarao asked this question as one of the first questions: "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?" now how could that guy ever have a bible? impossable, right? so then, how did he come up with that question? it must have been told him by his ancestors, and why would his ancestors tell him? because it happened. and if the flood never happened, then how come even on the highest mountains you can find shells and fossils of sea animals?

Huh, when I run that exact quote through google "Have you heard of a great flood that destroyed all men and animals?", I can't find any results prior to 2011.

Where did you get it from? Did you see it within the last year? It looks a bit like someone was conning you. Of course, it could be a translation error, or a problem with my search. Still, it'd be interesting to know where you got this information from.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

it's also funny that the chinese kanji for boat is actually a combination of the chinese kanji for 8 and the kanji for vessel and mouth (or person). note how the arch of noah had 8 people in it. source: http://www.bibleprobe.com/chinese.htm

http://www.icr.org/article/why-does-nea ... ion-globa/ (written by John D. Morris, Ph.D.)

Your link doesn't actually support your story. Seems like you were conned. What you want to do next time is look at the original diaries and accounts of the conquistadors for this kind of stuff. Don't just buy into stuff because it's on an obscure internet site and it suits your beliefs.

Also, "Chinese kanji" is a bit of a weird phrase. "Kanji" is a Japanese term for Chinese characters used in Japanese writing. As for the boat thing, that's a little tortuous. The Japanese kanji for a letter "tegami" (as in one you write to someone else) is a combination of the characters for "hand" and "paper". The same combination of characters in China means toilet paper.

[chang50]

there's not a single person alive who never at some point in there life asked themself the question: "is there a god?".

What about people who have never heard of such a thing as a god?

Quite right.in fact I know such a person very intimately,my wife,she was raised in rural Thailand as a Theravada Buddhist atheist,like tens of millions of others.She has absolutely no concept of what a deity is,I attempted to explain it to her once and her response was of utter incomprehension.Zimmah you repeatedly make blanket assertions of this type that betray a profound ignorance of the subject at hand,in fact it is almost embarassing to read such uninformed drivel.

[zimmah]

When the Christians came to China, they had to fit Christian concepts into Chinese, thus creating some new characters by meshing together some old ones.

The Buddhists had the same problem when they came over...

so if you're pointing to Chinese characters made by Christians to show that the Chinese (pre-Christian days) had some connection to the Bible...

the chinese characters are older then the bible, and those characters existed way before christians ever set foot on china.

[zimmah]

Your method for responding to my points all at the end of the post have caused me to lose the point of what you're talking about in some places here. Is there ANY CHANCE you could respond to each point, rather than putting all of your answers at the end? All you're doing here is confusing things, as far as I can tell. I don't believe you're doing that intentionally, because your answers have been fairly straightforward, but it is happening nonetheless. It makes following the thread exceptionally difficult and I'll probably just give up on what could be a very interesting conversation if it continues...because it's not worth the hassle.

funny how an old book, written by dozens of different writers in a timespan of hunderds of years, thousand of years before modern science, has never been disproven by any science, old documents or anything at all, and you still believe it's just a book written by random humans.

Do you believe that the universe is only approximately 6,000 years old?

no, i don't believe the universe is approximately 6000 years old, that would be stupid to believe.

I agree. And yet, you want to take a book that makes that claim (that the universe is only approximately 6,000 years old) as a book of fact. It's either a book of allegory or a book of fact. It cannot be both, unless one admits that you're just cherry-picking the parts that you WANT TO BE either allegory or fact. But since you're not the one that wrote it, you don't get to do that.

if there is a god, wouldn't you want to know him?

If there is a god that refuses to show me his physical presence, why would I want to bother knowing him? If he's not demonstrably interested, why should I be?

god does not refuse to show his physical presence, god isn't a physical being in the first place, he's a spirit, a being of dynamic energy.

If god is all-powerful as the Bible claims, then he certainly can show us his physical presence. Or are you now claiming that he is not omnipotent? This seems like an excuse to me.

also, we humans are probably not even capable of seeing god without dying, he's far to divine for us mere humans.

So you DON'T believe that god is all-powerful? Because it would be a simple thing for him to make it so that his divinity would not overpower us. This seems like an excuse to me.

but isn't being created by him reason enough to at least listen to him?

As far as I am concerned, I was not created by him (largely because I choose not to believe, and desire proof). So I guess my answer to that is obvious.

your parents earn your respect too just for the fact they are your parents, don't you agree?

No. There are some downright bastard parents in the world. Mine were pretty great, and they earn my respect because they were pretty great parents.

yet god did far more then that, he basically gave us everything we have. and he is in fact interested, why else would he sacrifice his first born to die as a human on earth, murdered as a criminal, with a corrupted lawsuit against him, if he wouldn't care for us?

Prove it.

also, we humans are nothing compared to the entire universe, and yet god himself, and all angels, including the bad ones and the devil, care for us humans. in fact, there's a war in heavens going on, just because of humans, and you think god doesn't care? you're just closing your eyes to the truth, god does care.

Prove it.

you believe in god, and there is no god -> you're still happy with your life, so noone gets hurt. you may only be disappointed that there /is no god, but at least you have a good life in your way.

I am living my life in a good way, regardless of whether a god exists or not. The presence/absence of religion has no affect on how I conduct myself.

living your life in a good way is always good, i don't doubt that you do, but with all due respect, if you don't understand the higher meaning of life, no matter how much good you do, you're basically nothing more then an animal, you eat, sleep, reproduce and seek shelter, just like all other species on earth.

I agree. That is precisely what we are. We simply happen to possess a higher ability to reason and function, but yes...you've hit it pretty head-on.

i don't mean that in an offensive way, but we humans are designed to 'need' god, unlike animals. spirituality is a concept only humans can understand, we should be grateful of that.

I certainly am not one to be offended by the truth. Spirituality is a concept that was created to control the masses. We are not designed to "need god", but rather we have been taught that we "need god". I don't believe we should be grateful for that.

3) there is a god, but you don't believe there is -> may bea very bad thing, you hurt god's feelings

Worshipping someone out of fear isn't worship. It's just fear.

i don't worship out of fear either, i worship because i love god and what he done for us, and because i want to chose his side in this divine war. there's no in between, it's either you're on gods side or on the devils side. i know what side i want to be on.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that sure seems a lot like basing your decision on "wanting to win", which I would equate to fear of losing (in this particular circumstance).

it would amaze me more if they found life suddenly appearing somewhere in the universe, without human interference. (good luck with that)

That shouldn't amaze you, for several reasons. For one, it's almost a certainty that there IS life elsewhere in the universe. Secondly, are you saying that a god would be limited to only working on Earth?

the bible doesn't speak about the existence or non-existence of extraterritorial life because it doesn't matter for us at this moment of time, the earth has enough problems already anyways.

Now you're directly contradicting yourself.

and the war that is going on in heavens is about humankind, maybe god planned to make more lifeforms in the universe, but wanted to get this battle over with before continuing his work, or maybe there are lifeforms created so far away we can't get near them with our current technology, or maybe they're in another dimension we can't (yet) reach or even notice. it doesn't matter though.

It certainly MIGHT matter. A great deal. Why excuse it away like this?

also i'd like to see what science ever proved the bible wrong, as you said it did multiple times. i'm quite curious what you mean by that.

I made no such claim that I recall. Can you point it out to me?

and god isn't 'just' a lifeform, he's a being of dynamic energy.

Prove it.

nowhere does the bible claim the universe is 6000 years old.

[BigBallinStalin]

When the Christians came to China, they had to fit Christian concepts into Chinese, thus creating some new characters by meshing together some old ones.

The Buddhists had the same problem when they came over...

so if you're pointing to Chinese characters made by Christians to show that the Chinese (pre-Christian days) had some connection to the Bible...

the chinese characters are older then the bible, and those characters existed way before christians ever set foot on china.

All the Chinese characters are older than the Bible...?

[natty dread]

What I want to be true is true, objective evidence be damned!

[zimmah]

What I want to be true is true, objective evidence be damned!

glad you finaly admit it

[3osraile]

I randomly voted