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No, its actually not. That only applies to some social conservatives, its definitely not "what social conservativism is".GreecePwns wrote:Well in the political arena, that is what social conservatism is. .
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
Yes it is. We call them scientists.Haggis_McMutton wrote:Question: Might it not be that the belief that your group has privileged knowledge about the universe, it's creator and that which is right and wrong will usually lead to the belief that things should be run according to this privileged knowledge and thus the desire to spread and impose this privileged knowledge even through the means of the state?
Wow a whole department , how on earth do you find the time to read your favourite fairy talesDangerBoy wrote:Oh, stop it with the feigned disgust. I manage an entire department at work, and only have time to post once in awhile now. Somebody has to work to fund all these stupid entitlement programs that the utopians here want.chang50 wrote:Haggis posts a thoughtful and well considered question and this response is a perfect description of all that I find unpleasant about religion,good job DB..you should be embarrassed.
When has science ever claimed any knowledge of the creator (or lack of one) of the universe or any form of absolutist moral view?AAFitz wrote:Yes it is. We call them scientists.Haggis_McMutton wrote:Question: Might it not be that the belief that your group has privileged knowledge about the universe, it's creator and that which is right and wrong will usually lead to the belief that things should be run according to this privileged knowledge and thus the desire to spread and impose this privileged knowledge even through the means of the state?
This is my take on religion and government. If someone's activities violate the tenets of my religion, it does not directly affect me. I had an argument with some folks about this the other day. They began the discussion by trumpeting the Chik-Fil-A blown-completely-out-of-proportion, who-gives-a-shit, stuff. Essentially, their proposition was that "the gays are violating the free speech rights of the owner of Chik-Fil-A." Other than the fact that only the government can violate free speech, I asked the group of them why did they care if gays got married. Their response was typical: it's wrong and against my religion.GreecePwns wrote:It is quite a jump from "matter cannot be created from nothing" to "my morality is better than yours, and everyone must follow it regardless of the consequences."
Isn't it? Am I think only one who sees this?
Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
I grew up a Baptist. Your statistic there is exceedingly liberal. <grin>thegreekdog wrote:As far as the letter is concerned (someone else mentioned this), if you spoke with 10 Baptists, 9 of them would vote for someone who would ban gay marriage
Unbiased website.bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
Meh- sounds a bit like anti-Catholicism gone horribly wrong:bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
SourceIt is often claimed in popular books and websites that Gregory's condemnation of heretics worshipping Satan in the form of a black cat in his bull Vox in Rama led to a massacre of cats across Europe. However, there is no evidence of any such massacre and no mention of it in any actual sources from the period. It is usually also claimed that this supposed "cat massacre" caused the Black Death a century after Gregory's time, because the plague was spread by rats who were unchecked in Europe due to the decline of cat numbers. While this makes for a good story, it does not square with the evidence. The Black Death did not start in Europe and did not just devastate Catholic territories - it began in central Asia and spread west, devastating large swathes of central Asia, Asia Minor and the Middle East before hitting Europe. It makes no sense that an (alleged) western European massacre of cats could "cause" a pandemic that began well outside of Catholic Europe and had already killed millions across Eurasia. This story is a myth perpetuated, without evidence or references, by popular unscholarly works.[13]
What's that thing about playing chess with a pigeon? /threadthegreekdog wrote:Unbiased website.bedub1 wrote:This is kinda off-topic, but I'm not sure where else to post it. Did you know that the Catholic church is partially responsible for the Black Plague?
Basically, the pope made up some shit about cats and had them all killed, which allowed the mice and fleas to multiply out of control, killing nearly a 1/3rd of Europe's population.
http://suite101.com/article/cats-and-th ... gue-a58146Just another example of Religions "idealogy" going horribly wrong. They should have used SCIENCE. Fact/reason vs making shit up.Pope Gregory IX told people that domestic cats were diabolical in 1232, fueling anti-cat sentiment
CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/diseases/plague.htm
Cats can carry the plague.
/thread.
The wikipedia portion misses two points. The cat massacre didn't CAUSE the black death...it just made it worse. Nobody is claiming it started in Europe. It migrated to europe from asia. Imagine the cats are the worlds immune system, and it was weakened, so the attack was worse.Symmetry wrote:SourceIt is often claimed in popular books and websites that Gregory's condemnation of heretics worshipping Satan in the form of a black cat in his bull Vox in Rama led to a massacre of cats across Europe. However, there is no evidence of any such massacre and no mention of it in any actual sources from the period. It is usually also claimed that this supposed "cat massacre" caused the Black Death a century after Gregory's time, because the plague was spread by rats who were unchecked in Europe due to the decline of cat numbers. While this makes for a good story, it does not square with the evidence. The Black Death did not start in Europe and did not just devastate Catholic territories - it began in central Asia and spread west, devastating large swathes of central Asia, Asia Minor and the Middle East before hitting Europe. It makes no sense that an (alleged) western European massacre of cats could "cause" a pandemic that began well outside of Catholic Europe and had already killed millions across Eurasia. This story is a myth perpetuated, without evidence or references, by popular unscholarly works.[13]
EDIT 2: Wikipedia user TimONeill edited the page on the 13th, replacing this correct information:The Persecution of Cats
Cats came under suspicion for a variety of reasons. Unlike dogs, they did not behave subserviently toward humans. This was considered unnatural, because it violated the biblical view that humans should have dominion over animals. Also, cats were very active at night and engaged in loud, raucous mating rituals. Though cats had always behaved in this manner, to the superstitious minds of the Middle Ages, cats were practicing supernatural powers and witchcraft. Most accused witches were older peasant women who lived alone, often keeping cats as pets for companionship. This guilt by association meant that roughly a million cats were burned at the stake, along with their owners, on suspicion of being witches.
In the early thirteenth century Pope Gregory IX (1145–1241) declared that a sect in southern France had been caught worshipping the devil. He claimed the devil had appeared in the form of a black cat. Cats became the official symbol of heresy (or religious beliefs not advocated by the church). Anyone who showed any compassion or feeling for a cat came under the church's suspicion. By the beginning of the fourteenth century, Europe's cat population had been severely depleted. Only semi-wild cats survived in many areas.
In 1347 the bubonic plague swept across Europe. Called the Black Death, it killed twenty-five million people (nearly a third of Europe's population) in only three years. Thousands of farm animals died as well, either from the plague or from lack of care. The death rate peaked in the warm summer months and dropped dramatically in the wintertime because the plague was being spread to humans by fleas on infected rodents. The plague revisited Europe several more times over the next few centuries. In addition, millions of people are thought to have suffered from food poisoning during the Middle Ages because of the presence of rat droppings in the grain supply. Centuries of cat slaughter had allowed the rodent population to surge out of control.
With those incorrect lies. Obviously somebody doesn't like bad things being said about Pope Gregory.Perhaps his most lasting action was a minor item: his papal letter Vox in Rama of 1232 is credited with the vilification of cats, through its description of cult practices involving felines. This led to a great reduction in the number of cats, which, a hundred years later, may have contributed to the quick spread of the Black Death plague, which killed one-third to one-half of the population of Europe.[13]
what's the bad source? wikipedia? or the yahoo answers quote of cats.com? or the libraryindex.com source? I know it's the wikipedia edit that occured yesterday.Symmetry wrote:I read it, and dismissed it. A bad source doesn't make good history, and no matter how much you dislike the Papacy, the black death really isn't something you can pin on Catholicism.
What about when the religion IS the State, and the Pope is the King?(Vatican City) Does he gain his power through the State, or through the religion? Does the states population of 800 have the capability to persecute people and wage war?BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting article. She's stating that religion has been blamed for many problems (e.g. wars) in the past; however, it was not religion alone that was the cause. The primary cause was the fusing of religion with the State, which granted a particular religion the capability to persecute people and wage wars.
Great questions, bedub!bedub1 wrote:What about when the religion IS the State, and the Pope is the King?(Vatican City) Does he gain his power through the State, or through the religion? Does the states population of 800 have the capability to persecute people and wage war?BigBallinStalin wrote:Interesting article. She's stating that religion has been blamed for many problems (e.g. wars) in the past; however, it was not religion alone that was the cause. The primary cause was the fusing of religion with the State, which granted a particular religion the capability to persecute people and wage wars.
Back in the day, the Pope had considerable sovereignty over the sovereignty of other kingdoms, empires, etc., so the Pope would seem to be legislating and enforcing law through a "meta-State," as it were.bedub1 wrote:Looking at the cat example, which I've realized IS on topic, the Pope passed his proclamation and the followers enforced it. It seems that millions of christian Europeans who slaughtered their cats might have caused their own death and the death of their neighbors.

Holy shit.BigBallinStalin wrote:
There was no valid contract. Thus, no payment.BigBallinStalin wrote:
Done.
Labor: 1 minute * $100 saxbucks per minute.
Please pay for services rendered, TGD.
Your source says cats can carry fleas. I agree with that. Now lets move on to the rest of the conversation, and sources, which explain how cats keep rat populations in check, and how the pope through his ignorant ideology lead to the death of millions of Europeans.thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.
Cats eat rats, get plague, give it to peoplebedub1 wrote:Your source says cats can carry fleas. I agree with that. Now lets move on to the rest of the conversation, and sources, which explain how cats keep rat populations in check, and how the pope through his ignorant ideology lead to the death of millions of Europeans.thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.
You obviously didn't read anything I posted, don't know anything about the black plague, don't know anything about cats or rats, don't know how to think rationally. you can /thread yourself to death all you fucking want. It just shows how wrong you are and how you have absolutely no argument, when you feel the need to declare victory and the conversation over after each thing you post. You clearly can't sustain a discussion about this which is why you try to constantly end it.thegreekdog wrote:Cats eat rats, get plague, give it to peoplebedub1 wrote:Your source says cats can carry fleas. I agree with that. Now lets move on to the rest of the conversation, and sources, which explain how cats keep rat populations in check, and how the pope through his ignorant ideology lead to the death of millions of Europeans.thegreekdog wrote:bedub - your initial post linked to a pro-cat website (a quite disturbing website, I might add). My initial post linked to the CDC website. Notwithstanding my distrust of the government, I would say my source holds more water than your source.
/thread (again)
