AMC: The Walking Dead (Season 3:SPOILER ALERTS!))

[patches70]

Heh, I don't think Andrea should have offed herself when there were other people there to do it for her.

I think it is in the book World War Z, in Russia people who'd been bitten and were going to turn soon were killing themselves. Noble, surely, until a Russian Orthodox priest witnessed those people killing themselves and would have none of it. After that it was the duty of the priests to off the soon to be walking dead, to preserve the immortal souls of the soon to be departed.

Of course, if it were me and I was about to become a zombie, I'd off myself first. When I saw God I would explain that I couldn't allow myself to turn and end up killing even more people. It wouldn't be suicide, it'd be sacrifice. I think God would understand.....
That being said, if someone else were around I'd have them do it for me before I'd do it myself. But alone and with no other choice one would have to do it themselves.
Andrea wasn't alone, Michonne or Rick shouldn't have let her off herself. One of them should have done it.

+1 Agreed on principle, since I can't say I know what the eternal repercussions of suicide would be. Didn't the Jews commit suicide en masse during the Roman siege of Masada? It would be interesting to hear the Jewish view on the subject.

No, the Jews didn't commit suicide. Mothers killed children, husbands killed wives until only a few were left. The last drew lots to see who would be the last left alive, and the last one killed himself after killing the others.

[patches70]

I can't believe we're having a religious debate about a zombie TV show...

For me it's not so much religious. It's principle. One does not kill themselves. Self preservation instinct is in us for a reason. Just the very idea of killing myself is repulsive to me. I like being alive, I ain't checking out early by my own hand. I don't need the threat of Hellfire to tell me that I don't want to kill myself.

[Army of GOD]

I can't believe we're having a religious debate about a zombie TV show...

For me it's not so much religious. It's principle. One does not kill themselves. Self preservation instinct is in us for a reason. Just the very idea of killing myself is repulsive to me. I like being alive, I ain't checking out early by my own hand. I don't need the threat of Hellfire to tell me that I don't want to kill myself.

If you were captured by some insane group of people who you knew for a fact would torture the living fucking shit out of you and you had a five minute window to kill yourself with a gun before the walked in the room, you wouldn't kill yourself?

[patches70]

I can't believe we're having a religious debate about a zombie TV show...

For me it's not so much religious. It's principle. One does not kill themselves. Self preservation instinct is in us for a reason. Just the very idea of killing myself is repulsive to me. I like being alive, I ain't checking out early by my own hand. I don't need the threat of Hellfire to tell me that I don't want to kill myself.

If you were captured by some insane group of people who you knew for a fact would torture the living fucking shit out of you and you had a five minute window to kill yourself with a gun before the walked in the room, you wouldn't kill yourself?

If I had a gun I'd shoot the first one and as many as I could take with me before I'd ever kill myself. No, I wouldn't kill myself.

The dead know only one thing. That it is better to be alive.
To each his own AoG, if you wish to off yourself instead of facing pain then that is your choice.

[ThatDogFenton]

It would be interesting to hear the Jewish view on the subject.

I'm half Jewish. You'll get many, many viewpoints about suicide, as it all depends on how observant you are, whether you uphold the Jewish laws, etc. But, in general, while suicide is considered a no-no, we don't have the same view on the afterlife or the belief that "do X and you'll go to Y". Ie, you aren't going to hell for it, because we basically don't have hell.

And yeah, weird that a show about zombies has resulted in such deep discussion.

[thegreekdog]

Just saw the last episode. Have to say my favorite episode of the season was where they went back to Rick's hometown. I was supremely disappointed in the season finale.

[koontz1973]

The finale was not what I was expecting. And this is one of the things I have loved about this show. how they have managed to keep faithful to the comics but not be a slave to them. I honestly expected the govner to take control of the prison and force ricks group out onto the road again.

As for Andrea killing herself, rightly or wrongly, she did it. But if I was Rick, I would of made sure she knew the amount of crap she had caused by not killing the govner when she had a chance.

[jonesthecurl]

Heh, I don't think Andrea should have offed herself when there were other people there to do it for her.

I think it is in the book World War Z, in Russia people who'd been bitten and were going to turn soon were killing themselves. Noble, surely, until a Russian Orthodox priest witnessed those people killing themselves and would have none of it. After that it was the duty of the priests to off the soon to be walking dead, to preserve the immortal souls of the soon to be departed.

Of course, if it were me and I was about to become a zombie, I'd off myself first. When I saw God I would explain that I couldn't allow myself to turn and end up killing even more people. It wouldn't be suicide, it'd be sacrifice. I think God would understand.....
That being said, if someone else were around I'd have them do it for me before I'd do it myself. But alone and with no other choice one would have to do it themselves.
Andrea wasn't alone, Michonne or Rick shouldn't have let her off herself. One of them should have done it.

+1 Agreed on principle, since I can't say I know what the eternal repercussions of suicide would be. Didn't the Jews commit suicide en masse during the Roman siege of Masada? It would be interesting to hear the Jewish view on the subject.

No, the Jews didn't commit suicide. Mothers killed children, husbands killed wives until only a few were left. The last drew lots to see who would be the last left alive, and the last one killed himself after killing the others.

How does that fit in with the Commandments?

[crispybits]

Back on topic with the actual episode

The one thing that really bugged me on this one was the amount of time Andrea spent talking withMilton and just stopped doing anything to free herself. I mean we're told women are good multitaskers, couldn't she have been talking and getting hold of those pliers and cutting herself free at the same time?

[denominator]

Back on topic with the actual episode

The one thing that really bugged me on this one was the amount of time Andrea spent talking withMilton and just stopped doing anything to free herself. I mean we're told women are good multitaskers, couldn't she have been talking and getting hold of those pliers and cutting herself free at the same time?

This bothered me as well. She spent a lot of time talking with Milton, or giving the camera distressed looks instead of trying to free herself. Milton had to remind her a number of times to hurry up. Plus, we've seen many times that she's quite good at killing the zombies - so how exactly did Milton manage bite her once she was free? I didn't think that fit well with her character.

[strike wolf]

Back on topic with the actual episode

The one thing that really bugged me on this one was the amount of time Andrea spent talking withMilton and just stopped doing anything to free herself. I mean we're told women are good multitaskers, couldn't she have been talking and getting hold of those pliers and cutting herself free at the same time?

This bothered me as well. She spent a lot of time talking with Milton, or giving the camera distressed looks instead of trying to free herself. Milton had to remind her a number of times to hurry up. Plus, we've seen many times that she's quite good at killing the zombies - so how exactly did Milton manage bite her once she was free? I didn't think that fit well with her character.

I get the impression that the show occasionally likes to remind us that anyone could get bitten in any situation. I don't know how long Andrea had been held there. Probably no more than a couple days but I imagine she wasn't in top condition when she was freed.

[Army of GOD]

I can easily suspend my disbelief with Andrea's death as holy shit f*ck Andrea.

[saxitoxin]

I don't know how long Andrea had been held there. Probably no more than a couple days but I imagine she wasn't in top condition when she was freed.

Just two episodes before she ran a half-marathon in sheepskin, fur-lined boots! If she can do that surely she can fight-off the president of the Woodbury Magic: The Gathering club.

[thegreekdog]

Back on topic with the actual episode

The one thing that really bugged me on this one was the amount of time Andrea spent talking withMilton and just stopped doing anything to free herself. I mean we're told women are good multitaskers, couldn't she have been talking and getting hold of those pliers and cutting herself free at the same time?

This bothered me as well. She spent a lot of time talking with Milton, or giving the camera distressed looks instead of trying to free herself. Milton had to remind her a number of times to hurry up. Plus, we've seen many times that she's quite good at killing the zombies - so how exactly did Milton manage bite her once she was free? I didn't think that fit well with her character.

I get the impression that the show occasionally likes to remind us that anyone could get bitten in any situation. I don't know how long Andrea had been held there. Probably no more than a couple days but I imagine she wasn't in top condition when she was freed.

It is interesting how people die from biters/walkers. For example, T-Dog's death seemed entirely preventable. Unless one is literally mobbed by zombies, I can't fathom how one is bitten. It's not like we're talking about wolves (no pun intended strike) here; we're talking about slow, spastic former human beings. I actually can understand Andrea's death, especially if she was still stuck in the chair. Can't understand T-Dogg's death at all in the context of the show.

Other things that bothered me:

- How do five people chase off 50 people in the prison? Yeah, the 50 people weren't trained soldiers but I was like "What the? Why are they running away?" I honestly thought it was fake. These 50 people just finished blowing the unliving crap out of watchtowers, walls, and zombies.
- How do 20 people with guns let 1 guy with an eyepatch shoot them all?
- Further, why did Crazy McPatch kill all those people? I mean yeah, he's crazy, but can he be that crazy to destroy his power base? Power was ultimately what he was most concerned about so why throw that away.

[crispybits]

I would imagine the rationale would be roughly as follows (though I admit some of it is a bit weak):

- After the zombie ambush in the tombs with the alarms etc, the attackers were already in withdrawal mode and didn't really know what was going on. In a firefight like that you don't necessarily get a chance to assess exactly how many are shooting at you or what the exact tactical situation is so it's safer to get to a safe place and regroup from there.
- One guy with an automatic weapon, particularly if that one is trusted not to go psycho and a leader figure, can take down an awful lot of people without reply. Just look at some mass shooting incidents from real life and assess how quickly people managed to react in defence.
- Because Crazy McPatch was crazy, you don't need rational reasons for something when you're a looney tune!

[denominator]

I don't know how long Andrea had been held there. Probably no more than a couple days but I imagine she wasn't in top condition when she was freed.

Just two episodes before she ran a half-marathon in sheepskin, fur-lined boots! If she can do that surely she can fight-off the president of the Woodbury Magic: The Gathering club.

Exactly. Look what Glenn did when he was in the same situation and he didn't even have the luxury of a weapon in his hands. She's been shown killing tons of walkers with various close-combat weapons all season, yet seemed to just be ready to die here.

[strike wolf]

*Shrugs* As I said, I think the show creators like to remind everyone watching that even individual zombies are still dangerous and can get you at just about any time and to be honest, I find Andrea's death in that situation a lot more believable than some of the escapes I've seen happen through the course of this show (Merl cutting off his own hand and somehow escaping without becoming a victim of either blood loss or zombie attack (don't imagine he would have been in good shape to fight off any walkers), The governor escaping that room without getting bitten despite being shown as out of bullets and completely swarmed). If I am supposed to believe that those were possible I can accept Andrea dying in that situation.

[koontz1973]

Also, Andrea dying allows the producers to kill of any character they want at any time they want. Keeps the viewers in suspense over who will die next and also keeps the wages down. Ask for a pay rise and you get bitten.

It pays to ride with Rick Grimes.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni50486000/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t1

Indeed, Chad L. Coleman and Sonequa Martin-Green, who recurred on Season 3 of The Walking Dead as Tyreese and Sasha, have been upgraded to series regulars for the fourth season of AMC’s zombie-apocalypse smash, TVLine has learned.

Great news.

Additionally, Emily Kinney — who joined the show in Season 2 as Hershel’s youngest daughter Beth — has also been elevated to a regular.

Bluegrass anyone?

[denominator]

*Shrugs* As I said, I think the show creators like to remind everyone watching that even individual zombies are still dangerous and can get you at just about any time and to be honest, I find Andrea's death in that situation a lot more believable than some of the escapes I've seen happen through the course of this show (Merl cutting off his own hand and somehow escaping without becoming a victim of either blood loss or zombie attack (don't imagine he would have been in good shape to fight off any walkers), The governor escaping that room without getting bitten despite being shown as out of bullets and completely swarmed). If I am supposed to believe that those were possible I can accept Andrea dying in that situation.

I will agree on the escapes. It seems any time they set something up but then don't show it on-screen it falls into the unbelievability category. Obviously they weren't going to show Merle sawing off his own hand, but watching the Governor fight off that horde of zombies with a shovel would have been rather awesome even if I dislike the character. Same with Andrea... maybe she tripped over one of her own boots (which personally I would have removed at the start when trying to retrieve the pliers) or some freaky thing but they just decided not to show it.

I find it interesting the the changes they've made from the comic books - most notably replacing Tyreese with Darryl for the first 3 seasons. It will be interesting to see how they include both characters that are essentially filling one role.

[Army of GOD]

Additionally, Emily Kinney — who joined the show in Season 2 as Hershel’s youngest daughter Beth — has also been elevated to a regular.

Bluegrass anyone?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And how the hell is Andrea dying evidence that the producers will kill whoever, whenever? She was probably the fifth or so most important character and died in the finale, that's hardly random. Lori's death is the only surprising one this entire season.

TWD is too generic of a show to kill off people randomly.

[Juan_Bottom]

Well I liked the show. I think it's nice.

[Phatscotty]

TWD is better than Breaking bad!

I voted Michonne

[strike wolf]

TWD is better than Breaking bad!

I voted Michonne

I would agree with the first statement. I like Breaking Bad but it's not the best show on TV and realistically, Walt should have been caught or killed season 1. The only thing that stopped it is the surprising ineptitude of those who were in a position to do so.

Spoiler

They knew someone from the school stole supplies to make meth but it seems like they caught the janitor who they could not prove had stolen them and didn't follow up on that lead. Are we supposed to believe that his brother who was fairly thorough in his other investigations let it go so easily?

As far as best characters, Michonne's cool but Daryl is the best.

[strike wolf]

So...

Spoiler

Other than the ridiculously stupid scene of the zombies falling through the roof (Seems like the helicopter would have fallen through before any zombies and the timing was interesting.), it didn't seem like that much happened this episode until the very end. Possibly intentionally give everyone a small taste of what's to come this season but don't drop them right into it. I am guessing the significance of that one guy dying is to show us that the virus is mutating and now it can kill without having to be bitten directly? I really am not sure how I feel about that. I mean, I guess they are going to limit it to say that a certain percentage of the surviving population appears resistant to this new airborne strand but I don't know seems like making it so you can now become infected without being bitten or scratched makes it less zombie like in a way and I am not sure I like the potential consequences.

[patches70]

So...

Spoiler

I am guessing the significance of that one guy dying is to show us that the virus is mutating and now it can kill without having to be bitten directly? I really am not sure how I feel about that. I mean, I guess they are going to limit it to say that a certain percentage of the surviving population appears resistant to this new airborne strand but I don't know seems like making it so you can now become infected without being bitten or scratched makes it less zombie like in a way and I am not sure I like the potential consequences.

Spoiler

Why do you think that? Why not that the kid just didn't get sick and die, maybe his appendix burst, or he had an aneurysm and just died? Everyone is already infected, one becomes a zombie when they die whether they've been bitten or not. It seems more likely to me that the kid dying in the shower is zombie zero of the soon to be zombie horde running through the now packed with survivors prison. The kid was sick pretty much from the beginning of the episode on to the end. Or maybe the kid got bit and didn't tell anyone. I don't know why you go straight to the conclusion that the zombie virus is now airborne and kills all on it's own.
Maybe you're right, but I just don't know what evidence you base that on with the observations in the episode. He might have just popped a major blood vessel in his brain. I guess we'll see next week. Looks like there are zombies running free in the prison based on the previews of the next episode. I figure some of those zombies come from the now dead kid in the shower (who certainly died and will then get up and start killing). Either way, lots of people are going to be dying in the next episode.