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Gillipig wrote:I've read the books but I didn't remember that, sounds like they sold Tyrion short in a similar way they sold Baelish short. Reducing his intrigue and calculation abilities.denominator wrote:Hm. Trying to rank characters is always difficult. I've always liked Tyrion but he's never been in my top three.Army of GOD wrote:f*ck your fucking spoilers.
While we were in DR my friends and I had a good discussion on who our favorite three characters are. Mine are:
1. John Snow - great fighter, humbe, loyal, leader of men
2. Davos Seaworth - again, loyal, but is also moral (like when he freed Gendry)
3. Tyrion - yeah, that's not very creative but its hard to hate him
[1]. Until last Sunday, Oberyn Martell - lots of swagger, intriguing storyline, and great dialogue
1. Davos Seaworth - maybe it's just the staunch atheism coming through, but I've always like how he sticks to his guns
2. Jaime Lannister - swag swag swag swag swag
3. Jon Snow - now that he's grown up and isn't a whiny brat anymore
It was part of a greater spoiler, so I left it in there. I'd rather over-hide things than under-hide them.strike wolf wrote:Don't think this needs to be spoiled so:
Well when he was at the Eyrie no. He didn't feel he had anything to worry about but this time. There was much more risk to it. He did it on a whim and he found himself trusting his life to a man he only knew by reputation against one of the most feared killers in the seven kingdoms. Gods came into it more this time even if it wasn't what he was initially thinking.Denominator wrote:I think I'm projecting my views onto Tyrion, but I never really got the gods angle from Tyrion. I always thought he saw the notion of trial by combat as a way of cheating the system when the odds were stacked in your favour - which is why he calls for Jaime to be his champion back at the Eyrie.
This was actually a big departure from the books, and in my opinion the books fit the character better. [for those who did not read the books, the conversation where Oberyn offers to be Tyrion's champion occurs prior to his demand for trial by combat] It was a calculated play in the books, as opposed to the emotional tossing everything into the wind that is in the show. While Tyrion was never really in control in the books, he had a much better handle on the situation than he did in the show.
What? Hahah, don't you remember the look Tyrion had when Oberyn came in and after telling the tale of how he and his sister saw Tyrion as a baby, that he would be his champion? Tyrion had that look of "Oh thank God". You could see Beethoven's 9th, Ode to Joy, playing in Tyrion's mind on that news. And yeah, Peter Dinklage is that good an actor.betiko wrote:well in the show looks like tyrion doesn't have much hope that oberyn could win...
Danaerys is a difficult character to like in the show, along with Bran. In the books, much of their story is inner turmoil and dialogue which does not come across well on screen. So when Danaerys yells "I am the mother of dragons" and all that in the books, it's a claim to her heritage and a bold play, while in the show without the inner backstory it comes across as whiny and pretentious. Bran is much the same, although the dream sequences are helping a bit.nagerous wrote:Daenerys is ok but her story is starting to bore me, it is too unattached to all the other plotlines and is being fleshed out with pointless romance stories. She should go to Westeros already. Felt sorry for Mormont though.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
Yah. not to mention that Jon never saw Ygritte get shot with the arrow in the books. Admittedly as cliche as it was, it worked well for the way the episode went. Poor Grenn. Didn't deserve that. Actually it didn't occur to me until that scene that they had never included Donal Noye who was the one armed blacksmith of Castle Black who actually led the Watch in the Battle of the Wall since Bowen Marsh was out chasing wildlings, Allister Thorne was still riding back from Kings Landing with Janos Slynt and all other leaders of the Wall were dead. He actually died the same way Grenn did, taking out Mag, the King of the Giants, in the tunnels. This of course left the defense of the wall up to Jon Snow. That is until Janos and Thorne arrived after Jon and the Watch had held out for three days. Thorne took command and ordered Jon to go out and "treat" with Mance Raydar. I feel like the show handled this better than the books but we will see how it turns out. I liked that they actually humanized Thorne a bit in this episode.denominator wrote:I was very disappointed to see them kill off both Grenn and Pyp.
This episode was a very large departure from the storyline of the books, but for the most part (see above), I was a big fan of it. The way it was written worked better for written word in the books, and for the screen in the show.
Episode 10 is going to be one hell of a ride.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
I think you are the only person I know who absolutely hates the Wall story line. I admit it is a bit slow at times but I thoroughly enjoy it.betiko wrote:well for me it was possibly the most boring episode of the season. what a waste of game of thrones minutes. Just hate the wall storyline, I wanted to see advancements elsewhere.
Only interesting bit is when the maester reveals he is a targaryen.
ok I just went to check a targaryen family tree; Martin is mental, he made something up for 20 generations at least lol.
I am always very confused about the targaryens... who is supposed to be still alive other than daenerys and this old guy???? who is he, her grandfather?
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
Hints have been dropped about where Nymeria is. If you recall Arya made Nymeria run away to avoid being killed by Lannister men for attacking Jeoffry.betiko wrote:
It's not really that I hate the wall storyline but I'd like to see jon snow break his stupid oath and just walk around westeros for adventure with his sister arya and their wolf pack (where the hell is arya's wolf? I think I'm going to ask a spoil on this: will it come back or can I just forget about it?)
betiko wrote:yes I forgot about it, and I m pretty sure that at the time I didn't really pay attention to who the relatives he was talking about could be.
Ain't no one who's read the books gonna tell you. You'll learn soon enough if you just keep watching GoT, all your questions will be answered. Of course, then you'll have new questions, but such is the nature of GoT.betiko wrote: so where is stannis by now? devos managed to open a new credit on his bank account to buy some cool stuff. Isn't he supposed to go help out on the wall? I thought he would be there at the end of the episode with his army...
patches70 wrote:Hints have been dropped about where Nymeria is. If you recall Arya made Nymeria run away to avoid being killed by Lannister men for attacking Jeoffry.betiko wrote:
It's not really that I hate the wall storyline but I'd like to see jon snow break his stupid oath and just walk around westeros for adventure with his sister arya and their wolf pack (where the hell is arya's wolf? I think I'm going to ask a spoil on this: will it come back or can I just forget about it?)
During the war there were rumors of large packs of wolves roaming about and it was often Lannister men who found themselves on the wrong end of fangs. But I'm pretty sure the wolf pack is killing just about anyone they come across. All this has been mentioned in various episodes.
When she was sent away Arya, Nymeria went out and dominated another wolf pack and continues to dominate any other wolves she comes across, increasing the pack size. It's a veritable wolf army roaming about. And that's where Arya's wolf is, out fighting the good fight.
The books provide some other insights, but nothing really concrete about what's up with Nymeria. The only thing known for sure about her is that she is still alive. And she's very sad and very angry.
Hey! I never implied that, nor meant to. Maybe that'll happen, but I dunno, I wouldn't bet on that though.betiko wrote: so basically arya is just going to kick ass with a freaking army of wolves sooner or later, woohooo! sounds promissing, just hope it happens. hope they'll get a chew on daenery's dragons.
Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.Gillipig wrote:I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?
Nope, because Sam was raised in a castle as well, not only was he raised in one, he was the heir to it, John Snow was heir to...snow?patches70 wrote:Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.Gillipig wrote:I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?
For someone like Jon Snow, all noble, well trained and capable, it's no big deal for him to be brave and strong in the face of a terrible enemy.
It is a far greater thing for someone like Sam to face white walkers than for someone like Jon Snow.
If you are being robbed and a police officer comes to save you, you are thankful. But you understand that it's the officer's job to do such a thing.
If you are being mugged and a stranger off the street comes to your rescue, you are thankful yes, but your hope in humanity is given a boost as well. For what the stranger did was above and beyond, unlike the police officer who is expected.
Does that difference make sense?
I'm just bothered by that we're supposed to feel sorry for this guy when unlike so many others his problems were selfinduced.patches70 wrote: Sam's all right, IMO. I don't pity him because he requires no pity. He wasn't built to be a Lord I suppose, it wasn't his fate. His fate went through the Night Watch and who is one to argue against fate?
Sam is evolving. No different than Sansa evolving or other characters who begin as one person and through trials and tribulations become someone else.
He's a more cerebral person than Jon Snow. Sam is probably going to be pretty darn important to how things end, maybe even more so than Jon Snow. I guess we'll see.
That is more what i felt towards Sam at the beginning but I like him more now. Really if he had a friend like Jon growing up though he could have been a great lord. He's smart enough to make it and would at least be able to talk to the knights under him like he can now.Gillipig wrote:Nope, because Sam was raised in a castle as well, not only was he raised in one, he was the heir to it, John Snow was heir to...snow?patches70 wrote:Sam is the quintessential hero. He isn't particularly brave, he isn't good with a sword, he doesn't know much about tactics or strategy, but he faces the enemy regardless.Gillipig wrote:I'm sorry if I'm being the boring complainer here but I really didn't like the latest episode. It seemed empty of anything other than battle and Sam finding out he's a man basically. If he had done that earlier in his life he wouldn't even be there, I'm sorry but I don't feel much pity for Sam, he was born the oldest son of a powerul count (or whatever they call a similar rank in Westeros), he had the opportunity to live a much better life than 99.9% of the people in the world, and he screwed it up by being a complete wanker. You can't put a man who's afraid of his own shadow in charge of a county, his father had no choice but to send him to the wall unless he wanted to doom his entire house and family, it was Sam who made him send him to the wall by being such a wuzz. It's not like he gave up on him easily either, he kept trying to get him to become a man but he just never did. How do you guys feel about Sam? Do you have pity for him?
For someone like Jon Snow, all noble, well trained and capable, it's no big deal for him to be brave and strong in the face of a terrible enemy.
It is a far greater thing for someone like Sam to face white walkers than for someone like Jon Snow.
If you are being robbed and a police officer comes to save you, you are thankful. But you understand that it's the officer's job to do such a thing.
If you are being mugged and a stranger off the street comes to your rescue, you are thankful yes, but your hope in humanity is given a boost as well. For what the stranger did was above and beyond, unlike the police officer who is expected.
Does that difference make sense?
The reason Sam isn't as brave and courageful as John is not because he didn't have the chance to, which is the case for many others on the wall, Sam Tarly had every chance of becoming a great knight like many in his family, who are known for their bravery, (do you remember King Robert talking about his first kill? How it was an ambitious Tarly who sought him up on the battlefield and wanted to end the war and kill uprising at it's cradle?)
Sam had every chance of becoming just as brave as John, but he's a lesser man who didn't make use of his opportunities. This is why I don't feel much pity for him, he isn't some poor bloke who never had any chances in life and who just got unlucky, he's the Westeros equivalent to the son of a billionaire who managed to go broke.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
