Put Esc back the way it was

[Lord Arioch]

And since the new esc rules wreck havoc on some computers and if u use explorer its damaging to CC... i love esc and trench... but since i cant play it at work i dont start any more games in thoose settings! Its no fun to play 50+ rds and then loose cause your computer cant handle 100k movements

Back to the ol way!

[Metsfanmax]

This isn't really related to the escalating issue but just to the poor way that we handle large numbers of rolls, which almost certainly needs to be revamped at some point.

But since that hasn't been addressed, for now it can be reverted back to the original esc so the game is playable until those mass dice rolls are fixed.

Well, it's no longer my job, but I would insist that the admins fix the large troop number problem rather than this, which is not inherently a problem.

[IcePack]

This isn't really related to the escalating issue but just to the poor way that we handle large numbers of rolls, which almost certainly needs to be revamped at some point.

But since that hasn't been addressed, for now it can be reverted back to the original esc so the game is playable until those mass dice rolls are fixed.

Well, it's no longer my job, but I would insist that the admins fix the large troop number problem rather than this, which is not inherently a problem.

Except that computers / browsers freeze on top of it, let alone the system not handling the dice load. You fix one problem and not the rest.

Old system seems to be better overall now that we've tried the experiment.

[Metsfanmax]

This isn't really related to the escalating issue but just to the poor way that we handle large numbers of rolls, which almost certainly needs to be revamped at some point.

But since that hasn't been addressed, for now it can be reverted back to the original esc so the game is playable until those mass dice rolls are fixed.

Well, it's no longer my job, but I would insist that the admins fix the large troop number problem rather than this, which is not inherently a problem.

Except that computers / browsers freeze on top of it, let alone the system not handling the dice load.

I am advocating for an overhaul of how we deal with large numbers of troops in general. This could be any number of things, like instituting a cap on total numbers of troops or using a statistical algorithm for large dice rolls and the other calculations necessary -- such as battle odds, etc. There's nothing inherently more computationally expensive about using larger numbers, if it's done the right way.

You fix one problem and not the rest.

Old system seems to be better overall now that we've tried the experiment.

These games with large numbers of troops is exactly what the system was designed to fix -- and while it clearly has resulted in many escalating trench games with large numbers of troops, I'm betting the number of times this happens in standard escalating games has basically vanished. So you need to consider that in the cost-benefit analysis. If we revert to the old system, we'll still have plenty of stalemate games -- both in trench, and in standard -- and we'll still have the problem with the large numbers of troops.

At the very most, the only thing one could reasonably call for is to change how escalating works in Trench games. Though I still think it's better to fix the real problem than to put a bandage on it.

[codierose]

question for you did anyone actually count the amount of stalemate games created by esc spoils before the change.
Did the change actually improve anything or just create another issue

[IcePack]

Another thing, on mobiles you can't type troop # to help advance or anything. You've got to scroll thru very quickly increasing troop deployments.

Try scrolling thru 25,000 deployment on a mobile where you want to split the drop into 5k, 2.5k, or 1k increments. It's brutal

[Metsfanmax]

I agree that we should have a better mobile interface.

[IcePack]

I agree that we should have a better mobile interface.

Or we can accept it's a failed update and change it back. This is why the "we can always chsnge it back if the update doesn't work" argument doesn't fly. Once it's changed people defend it even when it's pretty clear there are issues

[Metsfanmax]

The update did work. The fact that it re-exposed an already existing minor problem doesn't negate the fact that it solved many others. I think the new system is far better than the old system and would absolutely not characterize it as a "failed update" even if I agreed -- which I don't -- that this issue is the fault of the escalating change.

But anyway, I see this as an opportunity to push for some needed UI changes. If you all don't want to take advantage of that, and would rather return to the broken escalating spoils and keep the broken UI, that's your call.

[IcePack]

The update worked? Really? When a "fix" causes more issues then it supposedly "fixed" I wouldn't call that a success.

[Metsfanmax]

The update worked? Really? When a "fix" causes more issues then it supposedly "fixed" I wouldn't call that a success.

Where is the evidence that there are more issues now than there were before?

[IcePack]

The update worked? Really? When a "fix" causes more issues then it supposedly "fixed" I wouldn't call that a success.

Where is the evidence that there are more issues now than there were before?

You mean, besides making games unplayable? At least before the past games were just stalemated now they don't even work in some cases. And seems to have caused a whole new set of games to stalemate. And doesn't allow for mass troop movement. And is annoying on mobiles. And is a pain in the ass to scroll thru.

But go on blindly defending your update, it clearly is working great I can't imagine what anyone's complaining about. Your right. 100%

[IcePack]

Another happy satusfied customer.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... ead#unread

[IcePack]

Some more!

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 6&t=205184

[Lord Arioch]

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=14052858
Well this sucks! i run out of time cause i cant bloody move 100+K troops!
fix it!
Im not going to win it, but i really want to able to play it ...

[Silly Knig-it]

I just voted to return back to the old way that it was. I won my last escalating trench game. But I wanted by sticking 82,000+ troops into one of the Augustus. The strategy that was involved is completely out the window now it's just a question of amassing as many troops as you possibly can to see if you can outlast the other person. So it becomes almost completely a question of timing the card turnins. When trench first came out I created some trench escalating games. On the futile maps we got up to what we thought were really big numbers in the four and five and 6000. Now I have to be careful where I play and when I play because I only have one piece of equipment like other people have mentioned, they can handle that number of troops. I too also run into the almost out of time and have to cut your moves short. Because the computers can handle moving 60,000 troops attacking 40,000 troops.

So please please put it back the way it was. Even if it's only for those that are trench games. Some of us like playing trench escalating. And we like playing the strategies that's involved in it. And some people have a blind prejudice against all escalating games. They seem to think there's no strategy involved. When there is strategy. It's just a different strategy.

[Metsfanmax]

The update worked? Really? When a "fix" causes more issues then it supposedly "fixed" I wouldn't call that a success.

Where is the evidence that there are more issues now than there were before?

You mean, besides making games unplayable? At least before the past games were just stalemated now they don't even work in some cases. And seems to have caused a whole new set of games to stalemate. And doesn't allow for mass troop movement. And is annoying on mobiles. And is a pain in the ass to scroll thru.

I already understand the issues with the new system (which, again, are not issues with escalating but with the way we handle large troop numbers). If I wanted you to repeat them, I would have asked. What I did ask for was evidence that there are more issues now than there were before. And all you've done is list problems that already existed.

Note that, as of this post, 84% of active escalating games are without trench. So even if this update fixed normal escalating games and broke trench escalating games, the net result is still vastly positive.

But go on blindly defending your update, it clearly is working great I can't imagine what anyone's complaining about. Your right. 100%

I don't understand why you are being rude about this, I honestly think that the new system is better for the site, and see this as an opportunity to improve further rather than returning to the old system, which was broken. If you disagree that's fine, but there's no need to say I'm "blindly defending it."

I'll drop out of the discussion for now. It is enough to say that I never support two broken systems when we could have zero.

[IcePack]

The update worked? Really? When a "fix" causes more issues then it supposedly "fixed" I wouldn't call that a success.

Where is the evidence that there are more issues now than there were before?

You mean, besides making games unplayable? At least before the past games were just stalemated now they don't even work in some cases. And seems to have caused a whole new set of games to stalemate. And doesn't allow for mass troop movement. And is annoying on mobiles. And is a pain in the ass to scroll thru.

I already understand the issues with the new system (which, again, are not issues with escalating but with the way we handle large troop numbers). If I wanted you to repeat them, I would have asked. What I did ask for was evidence that there are more issues now than there were before. And all you've done is list problems that already existed.

I answered your question. We went from stalemates which this was supposed to fix / in your opinion "broken" to stalemates plus what I listed above. So clearly you aren't understanding the previously stated list was more then previous system was, and it needed repeating.

Note that, as of this post, 84% of active escalating games are without trench. So even if this update fixed normal escalating games and broke trench escalating games, the net result is still vastly positive.

oh, so only 14% of esc games are screwed up. Is that supposed to be a good thing?

But go on blindly defending your update, it clearly is working great I can't imagine what anyone's complaining about. Your right. 100%

I don't understand why you are being rude about this, I honestly think that the new system is better for the site, and see this as an opportunity to improve further rather than returning to the old system, which was broken. If you disagree that's fine, but there's no need to say I'm "blindly defending it."

You have your opinion, I have mine. I think you do tend to blindly defend things, so I stated it. As for being "rude", I would say sarcastic. I get that way sometimes when I feel I'm talking to a brick wall. I also think saying "the old system was broken" is debatable, and isn't to be taken as fact. I think it's more a case of fixing things that ain't broke, and now they're broke.

I'll drop out of the discussion for now. It is enough to say that I never support two broken systems when we could have zero.

Again, I don't think the old system was broken.

[EBConquer]

I think it would be great if there were options of the escalating spoil type based on the other settings that are used. Of course, this entails more coding and more options that seemingly seem to scare people but for me, in a perfect world, we'd have the option based on the type of game we're playing.

[Lord Arioch]

I really dont care... BUT since im paying for this i want to be able to play the games i choose... or u can remove me from em without pointloss:)

Anyway fix it so its either playable or remove it... cause as it is now its broken and u will only get more feed up customers! Which is totally bad cause i love CC!

[redspyder]

It can be hard to see how many troops are in a region when the troops get so high and multiple region's troop counts are on top of each other.... With all these issues, perhaps CC wasn't designed to have so many troops in play at one time? I'm surprised this wasn't noticed during testing.

[universalchiro]

I'll say this, my partner in several of my doubles games, plays this new fandangled escalating spoils, and when she has good dice on an attack of 6,000 troops versus 5,000 troops, then it's hell to pay in our doubles games afterwards to make up the difference. After she's rolled well with 6,000 v 5,000, then simple kills of 25v7 are a complete failure, and 10v1 winds up advancing 2. So this new escalating crap, can sure wreck havoc on following dice rolls. On the flip side if she rolled awful with 6,000 v 5,000 then maybe she would win 6v25 with makeup dice, but haven't seen her roll bad yet in the escalating spoils games.

Anyways, the purpose of the enlargement of the escalating spoils was to prevent stalemates, but what's it's created is a different devil all together. Sometimes it's better to deal with the beast you have than the devil you don't.
2 cents worth.

[codierose]

Still say that a built in round limit to every game would have ended stalemates. Certainly Wouldn't get all these issues you have now ohwell.

[IcePack]

Sitter just went into a game, cashed for $17k troops and the system froze due to the huge troop count. So, he couldn't deploy - thus costing me $17k troops, another card for the next ridiculously high cash, and putting me $17k troops behind everybody.

This is just dumb and getting frustrating. It needs to be playable

[Lord Arioch]

Ive noticed (or im just paranoid) that after rolling like 120k vs 90k troops my dice seems to be really strange the next couple of rolls....
is this just my paranoia or does the massive amoint of calculation actully screw the dice up??