school shooting

[TeeGee]

keep your guns

But ban kinder Surprises, because they could be deadly

[Dukasaur]

btw i am not been srs about dis

It's okay. I didn't think you were serious, but these points deserve to be addressed. I'm really sympathetic to people who are mistrustful of the government. There's good reasons to be mistrustful of government, it does tend to run off the rails if people aren't continuously vigilant. Sadly, our society is just too damn crowded to run well as an anarchy, so government for all its faults is a necessary evil we will have to live with for the foreseeable future. If, eventually, people accept that some kind of regulation is required no matter how much it rankles, we need to be able to talk reasonably about what form such regulation can take.

[mrswdk]

Communist

[karel]

i love my guns,guns are part of everyday life,stupid ass snowflakes crying to get guns banned,dumb shits not going to happen,so they really should stfu and move on to real issues,like how about dealing with family and mental issues start there fist

[notyou2]

I have an idea. Lets put all the Karels et al in a large building with their weapons and unlimited rounds and see if any of them come out alive.

[mookiemcgee]

I'm 100% with karel on this one. Nikolas Cruz had every right to own an Ar-15, that's his constitutional right! It was also totally his right, to go into that school and kill 17 kids. All you snowflakes that "love children" (bunch of lefty pedo's if you ask me), should realize it's way more important that I get to own an Ar-15. If more kids brought their own guns to school maybe so many kids wouldn't have died... did you ever think of that you killary bitches.

[karel]

I have an idea. Lets put all the Karels et al in a large building with their weapons and unlimited rounds and see if any of them come out alive.

well thats easy,as all you snowflakes want to ban guns,what would you fight with rakes? hell yea this would be a easy fight

[HitRed]

If these kids want to march on Washington I'm fine with that. They want to pass some legislation I'm OK with that.

If they're just going to bash Trump I'm not interested.

Kids, my advice, play it down the middle and stay focused or in a year you'll have passed nothing.

[ConfederateSS]

For 80 years we've had laws regarding licensing, inspections, and mandatory liability insurance for the other great killer, the automobile, and as yet nobody has tried confiscating all the cars. In fact, there are more of them every year.

The slippery slope argument is bunk.

They've confiscated your freedom to drive at top speeds. Once self-driving cars become commonplace they will confiscate your manual cars, and eventually everyone will be getting transported around in autonomous pods that the police can hijack, lock and director to their killing camps while you bang on the inside screaming for help except no one can hear you.

Yes, we lack the freedom to drive on our local highway as if we were on driving the Le Mans Grand Prix. On the other hand, we are more or less free to choose our favourite route to work. Which is precisely my point -- it isn't all-or-nothing. It isn't a choice between absolute unrestricted freedom and total subjugation to regimentation. We can decide, as a social democratic society, to curb some of the more dangerous freedoms while retaining others.

As for the self-driving cars and the next step in loss of independence: that's a little beyond the scope of this thread, but, yes it will happen, except nobody will confiscate your car. Consumers will gradually choose the convenience of auto-auto over the hassles of doing it yourself. A few crabby old men like me will hold out, growling "I'm smarter than those idiot robots" and continue doing it ourselves until the end, while our grandchildren laugh at us. You probably carry around a police tracking device right now. It's called your cell phone, and the police have the ability to tap into it and see where you are right now. You can disable the GPS functions, except almost nobody does. The vast majority of people choose convenience over privacy. They let their phones broadcast their location so that they can order a pizza or a taxi faster, and so it will go with the auto-autos. People will have the option to retain that particular freedom, but for the sake of convenience they will willingly choose to give it up.

-------We all, well us veterans of real school systems.....Know all about JOHN HENRY...A REAL STEEL DRIVING MAN...WE WILL HOLD OUT LIKE JOHN...and end up like him...but what a way to go... YOU GET A KOOL SONG... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ...Kids today don't have time for Kool songs...They're to busy dodging bullets...

[DoomYoshi]

Don't be so willing to give up another's freedom.

https://youtu.be/WB6p5QPVhPI?t=29

[Neoteny]

Punishing a majority for a minority is never a great answer. Again, completely understand that changes need to be made, but taking away all firearms from every single citizen should be a complete last resort.

I'm going to be a little pedantic and note that gun owners are significantly outnumbered by nonowners, so the majority is already being punished by the minority, but I get your point. The question is, where is the last resort if it isn't dozens of kids murdered in school, or the tens of thousands of other annual gun deaths? What is the first resort? What have we done to fix this? Saying it should be a last resort is kicking the can just as effectively as some grease balls "thoughts and prayers."

Great answers for this would be educating people in the use and safety of firearms. If everyone is as gun-ho as they say they are, this should make sense. Your kid learns how to properly use a gun that every American has a right to until they prove otherwise. No big deal to me, right? Of course you'll have conspirator loons and skeptics of the worst kind ruin what could be a potentially good thing; "America is militarizing our children!"

I absolutely agree that education would help reduce accidental death to a degree, perhaps a lot with regards to children. I learned as a kid and am comfortable with them ,and feel that as long as guns are around thay I want my family to know, at the very least, how to fire and disarm them. But this doesn't stop murders and suicides.

The other great answer to this as mentioned above with "prove otherwise" are those that are mentally ill. If you trust a man with severe PTSD coming home from several wars with a firearm, you're putting a lot of faith into them. Everyone does of course have the right to defend themselves, but I wouldn't risk everyone's safety over that one man who could prove to be incredibly more dangerous than your everyday home burglar. You can free up the healthcare all you'd like, but it doesn't magically cure someone of their PTSD, or their autism, or from being a psychopath. We already can see a pattern with these mass shootings that folks like Cruz who exhibited enough for a concern prior to the shooting, Devin Patrick Kelley, a veteran and shooter of the Sutherland Springs Church suffered some serious mental issues, Chris Harper-Mercer also suffered from being mentally ill. Umpqua Community College shooter, will cause harm to others if given the opportunity. Why give them it?
Those are all incredibly recent.

Of those, the two that I glossed over from recent memory is the Las Vegas shooter, which just happens to be one random guy with no criminal or mental health history, and the Orlando club shooter whom was, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist.

You have to make that line somewhere though and if there's one thing human experience has taught us is that lines are blurry and useless. Anyhow, there is no magic bullet to the gun issue. It's why I advocate in these discussions for a gun ban, AND mental health services, AND a focus on cultural change, AND moves for economic stability for the lower class. These all have effects on gun usage. A ban is an easy first step, but if that's off the table, there are other options to help that don't focus on othering neuroatypical folks. AND also abolishing the police, but despite my immense patience, I can only take so much howling at me.

One very last issue that I have is with the media. Not with false reportings, but naming the shooter, covering it extensively, death/casualty toll, etc. A lime light for these sick fucks just so one more loon can look at the news and say "hold my beer, watch this."

I'm of two minds on this one too. Part of the media's job is to report on these atrocities. Anti-war sentiment spiked during Vietnam for a reason. But I understand people's need for privacy too,and the feeling of hating the publicity these fools cause.

[warmonger1981]

Neotony wrote: don't need school shootings and theater massacres to justify gun control, and it won't work anyway since conservatives don't care about dead children (especially when those dead kids are directly from a white nationalist).


How can people have rational conversations with irrational people? To be so narrow minded is beyond belief. That's like saying all liberals are Communist trash that love killing the same way Stalin did. Starvation.

[nietzsche]

i think it has to do more with american zeitgeist.

there's so much pressure on people to succeed big. so much bullying, so little family. (IN GENERAL)

but yeah, you can't kill 10 people with a baseball bat in 2 minutes.

it's also something that sadly is already a meme. perhaps this is something that should stop being broadcasted for endless hours.

[mrswdk]

It probably will soon. Stories about American shootings are surely so boring now that the only people who click those stories are kids who don’t remember the last ones. News sites probably get more mileage out of discussing the latest dress that Maggie Merkel’s been seen wearing on Harry’s arm.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Long post

I read everything, just don't want to see a massive wall of text in my post.

Your proposition of immediately taking away all guns and providing free health care would reduce the shootings/suicide, but I'd still would treat that former as a last resort. Free health care is obviously an ongoing issue for years. With Medicaid, Obamacare and whatever Trump is trying to do with it, it will remain an issue for however long. You have to battle with the capitalist world and the surgeons, doctors, nurses and whomever else that go to school for years to practice medicine, earn their degrees and get the big boy dollars and say "You're going to get a significant pay reduction for the good of America." People are obviously going to be butt hurt because we have a selfish society. I'd even be butt hurt because if I were in those folks shoes, busting a nut and a half to become a heart surgeon, and were told that I'd have to live in an apartment because healthcare is now free and the taxes don't cover my wage and yada yada yada....Get my point on this?

As for taking away all the guns...Blacklisting the mentally ill is simply a building block. Think of it as Obamacare. That shitty administration implemented it and said "We don't know if it'll work unless we try." And it basically gets thrown on everyone. Whether it worked or not is entirely opinion based, but hey, at least it gives us an idea of where to go from there. The same thing can apply to black listing the mentally ill. Did the shootings increase or decrease? If the answer is yes, no need to change it unless required later. If the answer is no, take it one step further. Maybe ban semi-automatic weapons. Keep building it from then on and deduce if the mass killings are being reduced or not. There's absolutely no reason to immediately take everyone's guns away.

[mrswdk]

I'd even be butt hurt because if I were in those folks shoes, busting a nut and a half to become a heart surgeon, and were told that I'd have to live in an apartment because healthcare is now free and the taxes don't cover my wage and yada yada yada....Get my point on this?

Yeah but they could live in a nice apartment.

Apartments are the future.

[DirtyDishSoap]

My ideal future is a house with no neighbors, and I can walk around my house butt ass naked, with a beer holding hat, sipping on one of those dumb fuckin loopy straws.

[Neoteny]

Long post

There absolutely is a reason to remove all guns (hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths per generation), and our society is garbage so we have a long way to go on any sustantial change (for example, taking care of doctors' massive student loan debt would go a long way toward mitigating a lot of healthcare issues and ease their transition; most doctors want to help people, not make money), but that's no reason not to try. At any rate, I think we're winding down here, so I won't press any farther than that.

[warmonger1981]

Let's quit selling kids the idea that college is a must. Most get worthless degrees. Then stay in debt for years with a worthless degrees. But that's another story. Face it guns will never be banned. A social change is needed. Like a complete overhaul. And that's another can if worms.

[mrswdk]

Let's quit selling kids the idea that college is a must. Most get worthless degrees. Then stay in debt for years with a worthless degrees.

And then gun violence will decrease.

[karel]

so these kids walked out of class to protest,they should all be expelled from school,they do not have a right to walk down road,slowing traffic down

[mrswdk]

What would you have done if you were driving down that road, karel?

[Bernie Sanders]

so these kids walked out of class to protest,they should all be expelled from school,they do not have a right to walk down road,slowing traffic down

You want to remove a couple of Amendments in our Constitution?

Fukn Russian boot lickr!

[Neoteny]

so these kids walked out of class to protest,they should all be expelled from school,they do not have a right to walk down road,slowing traffic down

Children are better at Democracy than karel is.

[karel]

What would you have done if you were driving down that road, karel?

i would not stop as they are breaking the law