the "unwritten rules"

[TrafalgarLaw01]

It bothers me some in a 1v1 but I don't place high importance on those games for the most part so I live with it. Like I said, I will just start and give the information in chat, which seems ok for 99% of the people and I am ok with an opponent doing that...I play individual games totally for fun so I don't like waiting 12 hours for them to start.

Giving the info in chat is actually often more info then they'd get if they snapped so I can't imagine why they would have a problem with it.

How can it be more info ? you're supposed to only give what the player was seeing.

It is a bit easier to see on a snap rather than having to rely on chat information to check back what was what imo. Tiny difference if you know the map. Bit more annoying if it's an USA2.1 or a Hive map though.

I’ve always found USA2.1 to be easy to read, but I just “get” some maps…and others take me many games to learn (CR or KCII for instance).

U will never need snap t1 in KCII. On the other hand Conque Rome would be the one of the maps, where snap is needed the most.

[Donelladan]

Oh I didn't realise this was specifically only about first turns.

idk I'd never heard of this until this thread. Judging by this thread it appears to be some thing people in clans do. I don't think you could expect the average CC player to have even heard of this courtesy, so I'm not sure it really passes as even an unwritten rule.

I always figured if I set up a 1v1 fog game and later find out my opponent got the first turn, them's the breaks. I can always infer the area they might have focused in during turn one by seeing where the highest concentration of ? terts is.

But let's say it's a 1vs1 game on classic.
You start with Bangkok and Perth.
Your opponent got first turn has Jakarta, take Perth.
Now you do not know what is on Port Moresby and Sydney.
And there too many others regions with ? on the map that you can't know for sure whether Port moresby and Sydney belongs to your opponents or if they are neutral.
Plus there is a 5 on Jakarta, and it's a flat rate game.
So if your opponent has the oceania bonus, it might be better to try for a 6vs5 from Bangkok to Jakarta.
But if PM and Sydney are neutral, it's better to go for a 6vs3 for a card elsewhere.

You didn't get the snap on the first turn before your opponent played, thus you lost that precious information.

In multiplayer game escalating ( especially 4vs4 or 3vs3 because then you see almost everything) it can be also very important to know where is the last region of one player if you want to eliminate him later. That information can be lost if you don't get to see the map before your opponent play.

Lot of situations where you can miss information.

I will agree with you that in many cases, it doesn't matter that much, or doesn't matter at all.
But in highly competitive area, such as clan where we play series with 30 games on each side that are sometimes decided by a single game, it's quite important.

And as you said, it's not something we expect the "average" cc player to do. But I've seen many players, in clan or not, respect it outside of clan, so it's a kind of unwritten rules for a part of the player base at least.

[KoolBak]

Agree to disagree.

I've been here longer than any day of you, I believe, and I'm apparently too average to know this.

Of course I play 99% of games with my 20+ year old group, so this comes from an anti-clan perspective

[rockfist]

Oh I didn't realise this was specifically only about first turns.

idk I'd never heard of this until this thread. Judging by this thread it appears to be some thing people in clans do. I don't think you could expect the average CC player to have even heard of this courtesy, so I'm not sure it really passes as even an unwritten rule.

I always figured if I set up a 1v1 fog game and later find out my opponent got the first turn, them's the breaks. I can always infer the area they might have focused in during turn one by seeing where the highest concentration of ? terts is.

But let's say it's a 1vs1 game on classic.
You start with Bangkok and Perth.
Your opponent got first turn has Jakarta, take Perth.
Now you do not know what is on Port Moresby and Sydney.
And there too many others regions with ? on the map that you can't know for sure whether Port moresby and Sydney belongs to your opponents or if they are neutral.
Plus there is a 5 on Jakarta, and it's a flat rate game.
So if your opponent has the oceania bonus, it might be better to try for a 6vs5 from Bangkok to Jakarta.
But if PM and Sydney are neutral, it's better to go for a 6vs3 for a card elsewhere.

You didn't get the snap on the first turn before your opponent played, thus you lost that precious information.

In multiplayer game escalating ( especially 4vs4 or 3vs3 because then you see almost everything) it can be also very important to know where is the last region of one player if you want to eliminate him later. That information can be lost if you don't get to see the map before your opponent play.

Lot of situations where you can miss information.

I will agree with you that in many cases, it doesn't matter that much, or doesn't matter at all.
But in highly competitive area, such as clan where we play series with 30 games on each side that are sometimes decided by a single game, it's quite important.

And as you said, it's not something we expect the "average" cc player to do. But I've seen many players, in clan or not, respect it outside of clan, so it's a kind of unwritten rules for a part of the player base at least.

If you are playing classic you erred already.

[bigtoughralf]

Oh I didn't realise this was specifically only about first turns.

idk I'd never heard of this until this thread. Judging by this thread it appears to be some thing people in clans do. I don't think you could expect the average CC player to have even heard of this courtesy, so I'm not sure it really passes as even an unwritten rule.

I always figured if I set up a 1v1 fog game and later find out my opponent got the first turn, them's the breaks. I can always infer the area they might have focused in during turn one by seeing where the highest concentration of ? terts is.

But let's say it's a 1vs1 game on classic.
You start with Bangkok and Perth.
Your opponent got first turn has Jakarta, take Perth.
Now you do not know what is on Port Moresby and Sydney.
And there too many others regions with ? on the map that you can't know for sure whether Port moresby and Sydney belongs to your opponents or if they are neutral.
Plus there is a 5 on Jakarta, and it's a flat rate game.
So if your opponent has the oceania bonus, it might be better to try for a 6vs5 from Bangkok to Jakarta.
But if PM and Sydney are neutral, it's better to go for a 6vs3 for a card elsewhere.

Usually on Classic it'd be simple enough to count the terts you can see and work out the likelihood they have the bonus, imo.

It's not really that much difference to seeing on the log that they conquered a neutral tert, and trying to guess which neutral tert it might've been.

[jusplay4fun]

Oh I didn't realise this was specifically only about first turns.

idk I'd never heard of this until this thread. Judging by this thread it appears to be some thing people in clans do. I don't think you could expect the average CC player to have even heard of this courtesy, so I'm not sure it really passes as even an unwritten rule.

I always figured if I set up a 1v1 fog game and later find out my opponent got the first turn, them's the breaks. I can always infer the area they might have focused in during turn one by seeing where the highest concentration of ? terts is.

But let's say it's a 1vs1 game on classic.
You start with Bangkok and Perth.
Your opponent got first turn has Jakarta, take Perth.
Now you do not know what is on Port Moresby and Sydney.
And there too many others regions with ? on the map that you can't know for sure whether Port moresby and Sydney belongs to your opponents or if they are neutral.
Plus there is a 5 on Jakarta, and it's a flat rate game.
So if your opponent has the oceania bonus, it might be better to try for a 6vs5 from Bangkok to Jakarta.
But if PM and Sydney are neutral, it's better to go for a 6vs3 for a card elsewhere.

Usually on Classic it'd be simple enough to count the terts you can see and work out the likelihood they have the bonus, imo.

It's not really that much difference to seeing on the log that they conquered a neutral tert, and trying to guess which neutral tert it might've been.

ralph continues to show his ignorance about CC. Not all maps are as basic as Classic and there are Clans where members follow the 12 Hour FoW Rule. Continue to learn, ralph.

[detlef]

Can we just agree that it's just a sporting thing to do in games where it's not required by clan (or tribe) war protocol and move on? I do, and would prefer that be the norm. But I'm not going to get pissed about it if my opponent doesn't do it in a casual game. Well, I might get a bit annoyed if I'm playing someone who plays a lot of clan games because I would expect at least them to recognize the sporting nature of it.

After all, that's the thing about "unwritten rules". They're not written for a reason because not everyone thinks they should be followed.

Baseball has a ton of them. Some people think it's the height of disrespect for a batter to pause and watch their homer leave the ballpark. Others say, if you don't want me to do that, throw a better pitch. Hence that rule is "unwritten".

[jakevv]

In regards to the 12 hour rule... there would be a relatively easy programmatic fix to this...

When creating a game the person creating it can be given the opportunity to select... "Wait 12 hours after game fills to start"... once the game is full the 24 hour timer will not start until after 12 hours have passed.

This helps those of us that may only take turns once a day... and allows the "unspoken" 12 hour rule to become a 12 hour option.

Another way would be for an "automatic public snap" to be taken by the system once the game fills and starts... that actually might be an easier solution.

[rockfist]

Another way would be for an "automatic public snap" to be taken by the system once the game fills and starts... that actually might be an easier solution.

This

[Dukasaur]

ralph continues to show his ignorance about CC.

Can you even conceive of how to express a disagreement without someone without making it an interpretation of their character?

[detlef]

Another way would be for an "automatic public snap" to be taken by the system once the game fills and starts... that actually might be an easier solution.

This

A fine idea. If only there were a place where suggestions could be made and actually implemented if enough people supported them

[jusplay4fun]

ralph continues to show his ignorance about CC.

Can you even conceive of how to express a disagreement without someone without making it an interpretation of their character?

I often do. Do you want examples?

Do you chastise ralph for the Same, Duk?

I respond in kind; if ralph attacks me often and incessantly, I will call out his ignorance.

I simply think ralph is ignorant and posts unintelligent things most of the time, such as about the 12 hour FoW Rule. In contrast, even jimb will post things once in a while that show rational thought.

[bigtoughralf]

ralph continues to show his ignorance about CC.

Can you even conceive of how to express a disagreement without someone without making it an interpretation of their character?

The problem is if he didn't attack their character he'd have to work out how to respond to the point they were making instead.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Another way would be for an "automatic public snap" to be taken by the system once the game fills and starts... that actually might be an easier solution.

This

A fine idea. If only there were a place where suggestions could be made and actually implemented if enough people supported them

[jusplay4fun]

ralph continues to show his ignorance about CC.

Can you even conceive of how to express a disagreement without someone without making it an interpretation of their character?

to prove my point, from this thread:

Re: the "unwritten rules"
Postby bigtoughralf on Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:35 pm

What's the 12 hours thing about? I'm supposed to skip the only chance I get to take my turn all day because my opponent can't just play the board they see in front of them? F that.

Re: the "unwritten rules"
Postby bigtoughralf on Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:48 pm

Oh I didn't realise this was specifically only about first turns.

idk I'd never heard of this until this thread. Judging by this thread it appears to be some thing people in clans do. I don't think you could expect the average CC player to have even heard of this courtesy, so I'm not sure it really passes as even an unwritten rule.

And further, ignorance is not about character; it is a fact about what one knows or does not know. ralph did not know about this rule. Thus he was ignorant of it. ERGO, QED. No disparagement; just fact.

AND, here is only ONE example where I disagree and did not attack the character of someone I disagree with, since Duk ASSUMES incorrectly that I do not do so:

Re: Great Battles in History
Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:23 am

HitRed wrote:
I would consider Cortez conquers the Aztec Empire a campaign, not a battle.

The Key battle was the defeat of the Aztecs in their capital, what is now Mexico City. After that, there were battles against elements of Aztecs and/or their allies or vassals, but the course of the CAMPAIGN was set by the first real battle.

QED #2, same post.

[All Black Rugby]

So, getting back to the point of this thread: are we at the point where we say there are only two unwritten rules in CC, to do with Truces and the 12 hour snap?

[bigtoughralf]

Think they're two unwritten rules of playing clan games.

[detlef]

Think they're two unwritten rules of playing clan games.

Actually, no. One is very much a written rule in clan games and one, by definition would never apply to clan games. it involves alliances which don't happen in clan games because there's only one enemy.

[SoN!c]

So, getting back to the point of this thread: are we at the point where we say there are only two unwritten rules in CC, to do with Truces and the 12 hour snap?

Yes, let's talk about truces too. Im here 2 years now and seen lot's of truces BUT i also noticed not everybody has the same idea about them. And when 2 people have a different idea about the same thing that's when shit hits the fan (resulting in bad ratings or disputes, calling "the other" a "backstabber" or a "word breaker" / even a "Cheap Tactics Guy"..

So on a "normal " (1 turn) truce it's pretty simple for me: if i play my round and give notice that i end the truce i can attack you next round..

But here are some examples when disputes start :

"truce with 2 turn notice, breaker attacks second"

'Breaker attacks second" after 2 turn notice: let's hear it, i heared so many different explanations about it that it gets silly.. When exactly can you attack with 2 turn notice and 'Breaker attacks second" rule IF the other one does NOT attack you after you gave notice?
---------
Another example=: let's imagine a NAP between player A and player B: "along X border with 2 turns notice, whoever cancels attacks last, NAP excludes single free random terrs & contested areas" = so if player A cancels (on his turn) when can he attack player B? And if player C attacks player B in an area and takes some terrs does that area qualifies as "a contested area"?

(Also I see no difference between NAP or truce but maybye there is?)
------
Third example about an unwritten rule "all truces are null and void when it's just 2 players left". So imagine three players left, one (player A) has a truce with player B but he eliminates player C. Can he attack player B in same round when he has a "truce with 2 turn notice, breaker attacks second"?


I would like to hear the general consensus about it because there is a lot of dispute going on these things.

[Extreme Ways]

The fun part is that there isnt any consensus. The 'unwritten rule' of all truces are null and void when it gets to 3 players is bogus imo.

Now for 'breaker attacks second' rules, this is how I see it:

We have a 3 player game with players ABC. A and B have a truce. The idea is to always punish the one who voids the truce, regardless of when during the round he breaks it. E.g.:

Turn B ends.
A writes in chat that he ends truce
Turn C
Turn A
Turn B -> imo this would be a 'one round truce'
Turn C
Turn A -> may not attack B yet
Turn B -> this is where imo would be able to attack A. I can see it happen an entire round later also, but in that case of course A doesn't attack first.

But really, just... whenever you break a truce or get trucebroken, state when the non-breaking party may attack.

[detlef]

For the record, I have never known of any standing "unwritten rule" regarding truces and have always just dealt with them on a case by case basis and communicated my intentions as clearly as I could, preparing my defenses for the possibility that there was some confusion as to how it was supposed to end.

And I make a lot of truces. More so than most others in games I play in.

[Extreme Ways]

Word.

[bigtoughralf]

Yeah, if you make a truce without agreeing terms it's on you if your opponent breaks it in a way you don't like.

[Ltrain]

Just to add to the unwritten rules aspect of the thread, in speed game land its customary to wall the person when you join the game, though I only do it if they have first turn and miss it, or obviously have second turn and miss it. The wall notification seems to work better than the "someone has joined your speed game" notification.

[Craig25]

FOG RULES, CC should really fix this! And people need to stop posting Tournaments where they say it is in place but is not enforced. What a waste of time that is!

Anyway, if you want to play 2 Player RISK under FOGGY Conditions and want the Games to be FAIR while a FOG RULE is not in place, no waiting around, Games start immediately and it's still fair to both players..............Join the Super League, Established 2020, Still with 270 Players+ and over 100,000 Games played in it.....Season 14 starting SOON!:

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 0&t=239478